Kato vs Tomix vs MicroAce vs GreenMax

[HantuBlauLOL]

Tomix EMUs also suffered from the super fragile cardan shaft. Broke nearly all of mine, but it can be replaced by a properly shaped solid copper wire (thick one) though.

[kvp]

 

Tomix EMUs also suffered from the super fragile cardan shaft. Broke nearly all of mine, but it can be replaced by a properly shaped solid copper wire (thick one) though.

How did you managed that? The cardans in my trains are either 4-5 mm thick plastic rods or mostly made out of metal. (not counting spring worms in ancient models) Can you tell me a few set numbers (or train types)? Of course never seeing one doesn't mean there is none. I was amazed by the thin cardan in my Kato kokuden though which also managed to disassemble itself while in transit.

[HantuBlauLOL]

A dogbone shape could do it. Just make sure the edge of the 'bone' fits perfectly inside the connector, then wrap the thinner section in the center with a tape. My EMUs are more than 10 years old though, dunno about the quality of the newer versions.

 

Don't use a stiff metal such as a paperclip, it will be very noisy, I've tested it.

[kvp]

I was actually asking how did you manage to brake them? But the repair instructions could come handy too... :-) I'll check the one i have which was made in 2001 when i get home. Even olders ones which i took apart seem rock solid and very very noisy when not properly lubricated thanks to the spring drive.

[Ochanomizu]

...

 

If you look at the instructions for Tomix and Tomytec trains, they are only rated 12V and all Tomix controllers follow this with some Tomytec controllers going as low as having a 9V maximum. Kato has a mixed N/H0 scale controller, with the H0 range along the red stripe. They also make european models, that needs be 16V tolerant because of some european N scale power packs and DCC systems. It's also a good safety mesure to protect your trains from overvoltage from your own controller. For this reason, both european, american and DCC compatibile Kato models have 16V tolerant motors ...

 

Hello Mr kvp,

 

So sorry, but I can't find any info on 16v Kato motors.  My Kato 22-012 instructions state: ゲージを問わず、幅広くDC(直流)12V・2線式の鉄道模型にご使用いただけます。

 

This means you can use the product for a variety of model railways up to 12V, regardless of the gauge.  Despite the 15V input, the output is limited to 12V.  I also have 22-013 Hyper-D, suitable for HO and N.  Output is 12V, as per the label on the back of the unit, but the instruction say performance is 14V.

 

Also, I have run many brand over many years all with success on Kato controller and on my old Hammond controller which my father brought back from the UK some 40 years ago.  I would say that all brands perform similarly on both controllers.

 

I do agree that Kato, Micro Ace and Tomix all have different gearing on shinkansen.  Reason?  I just don't know.

[katoftw]

I prefer the high ratio gearing on the Kato Shinkansens.  But end up buying Tomix as they have the Shinkansens I want.

[kvp]

This means you can use the product for a variety of model railways up to 12V, regardless of the gauge. Despite the 15V input, the output is limited to 12V. I also have 22-013 Hyper-D, suitable for HO and N. Output is 12V, as per the label on the back of the unit, but the instruction say performance is 14V.

And even for the classic controller, output is around 16V at the top of the red scale. Of course you can use it as a 12V controller, just don't turn it up too high. But the output voltage depends on the input voltage, which is around 15-16V if you operate it with the original adapter on the Japanese power network, depending on load. Replacing it with a 12V DC adapter drops the top of the scale to 12V.

 

ps: I've checked my roughly 14 years old Tomix set. It's one with the early springless TN couplers and it does have the same small plastic cardan rod that i've seen on modern Kato kokuden sets. Fortunately older ones don't have it and newer ones got a reinforced plastic and/or metal cardan.

Edited May 12, 2015 by kvp

[HantuBlauLOL]

A derailment. The train stuck, then I heard a cracking sound inside. And then the motor spins freely.

 

Another one broke after I was giving it too much pressure to the ground when I was cleaning it's wheels.

Edited May 12, 2015 by HantuBlauLOL

[Ochanomizu]

Hello,

 

My input is 15v, my output is 12v.  Both 22-012 and 22-013.  Both units state max output and my multimeter confirms 12v.

[kvp]

 

My input is 15v, my output is 12v. Both 22-012 and 22-013. Both units state max output and my multimeter confirms 12v.

Since your input should be 15-17V AC and your output will be a double line frequency pulse, it's not really possible to measure it with a basic multimeter. 

 

 

Fortunately, there is an excellent article about the Kato pack:

http://www.sumidacrossing.org/Musings/files/131222_Kato%20DC%20Power%20Pack.php

 

Based on this, the maximal output could be between 13.3V and 15.3V, which is imho a bit too much for Tomix and similar motors. The true 12V mark should be at the start of the red line. (if you use an unmodified throttle and power pack)

 

The lower value is seen by people who live in countries where the line voltage is 100V and not 110V or use adapters that convert from 230V to 100V instead of 220V to 110V. (the latter is especially bad, since if it's used with the european voltage it boosts the adapter output to 18.4V AC, which means 16.7V pulsed DC on the rails)

[Robert46]

Hello again Mr Robert46,

 

OK. There is one thing you need to understand: the factories in China are owned by Chinese government, or companies, and tender for the manufacture of models.  Some models are made in Japan, even current models.  If memory serves me correctly I purchased a Kato new release this year that is made in Japan.  

 

A manufacturer may use the same factory for a number of models, but then change from time to time.  Changing factory can lead to change in quality.  Such information is tightly guarded secret, so we don't know exactly what is produced where.  Also, I never have a straight answer on the quantity of manufacture.  That's a question that even Mr Kato himself avoids answering.

 

I have several Micro Ace models that arrived with the shell pushed down too far and the shell was slightly deformed.  These are the only product that I had a problem with the shell itself.

 

Several of the Micro Ace shell have windows fall out easily when the shell is removed.

 

Recent Tomix products are using plastic pantos.  My Kato 10-1271/2 115-300系 purchased this year have metal pantos.

 

I have 2 x 10-260 Kato 40th Anniversary EF58 sets.  The paint on the dark orange stripe on one of the sets has some bleed and is not a sharp line.  The other set is perfect.  This is a limited edition set that you would expect to have been of the highest quality, right?

 

I have 2 x 10-238 Fujisan Limited Express sets.  That equals 8 end cars with Fujisan head boards.  For some reason, on one car only, the head board kept falling out of the front of the car.  I eventually glued it into place with great care.

 

The whites will go yellow over time.  I have 2 x Kato 10-276 700系 shinkansen sets.  One has been on display and the cars have yellowed slightly on the side that was facing the fluorescent light.  I have now fitted my display cabinet with appropriate UV protected glass, and LED lighting.  I notice very slight colour differences between the Tomix and Kato brand for my 583系 and 115系 Yokosuka, but then, there were several different JNR versions of the colours also.

 

Also on the topic of colour, I don't know why some product has grey bogie while other has black.  Tomix, for example, has released a number of versions of 583系.  In 2002 they had black bogie, in 2012 they had grey bogie.  I don't know why.  When I look at real trains, all bogie is roughly the same colour to me.

 

In addition to my comment about the Tomix spring worm drive, all manufacturers still have current product with and without flywheel.  Tomix motors have added circuitry to stop noise from Tomix CL constant lighting system.  If you employ the Tomix CL controller, you may hear noise from the motor of other manufacturer.

 

I recently acquired a Tomix 92061 485系 Midori Express for free.  I gave it to my nephew.  When we ran it I soon envied him and regretted my generosity, and that of my colleague who gave me the model in the first place, because, despite having no flywheel, it has one of the finest motors I have running.  It is so smooth and quiet, on a Tomix model which is probably 15 years old.  Meanwhile, my Nagoya 8800 from the same period is a rattly, noisy, spring worm driven beast !!!  (note: what happened to the line space? I do not know.  So sorry)

 

Light boards is something you did not mention, but I will.  Micro Ace seem to have the worst, but I have had trouble with all brands.  Micro Ace have many with round wire legs that make minimal contact with the copper strip running between the bogies.  I also had one where the solder had not flowed through the hole in the board to the leg beneath and thus the circuit was broken.  I undertook my own repair.  I am sure I have had to repair Kato, Tomix and Micro Ace light boards in the past.  I have also purchased brand new product with dirty copper strip that has required cleaning before light board would work.  I cannot remember which brand.

 

On the bright side (that is my pun :) ), Tomix still makes light boards for models manufactured in the 1990's.

 

I cannot comment on steam because I don't have.  I think the older Micro Ace and Tomix shinkansen are the most difficult to open to service light board.

 

 

Tomix and Micro Ace probably make the most effort with custom covers and packaging for limited edition and special release but Kato did a good job with 10-260 40th anniversary special.  Tomix usually has unique graphics on 929XX and 989XX models.

 

Generally across the range, I would say that the foam packaging used by Micro Ace is too tight on the model and make it difficult to insert or remove cars from the packaging.  I also believe it is the cause of product arriving with panto off, bogie off, wheel off, or shell pushed down too far.  I have experienced all.

 

Packaging style seems to vary randomly with all manufacturers.  Some come with instructions in clear plastic, others in translucent plastic.  Some have small piece of bubble wrap in front of the cars, others not.  Some have clear acetate, others have translucent silky film, others have nothing, some Micro Ace product have the silky film behind the cars too.  All product were purchased new, so my guess is this depends on what factory is used.

 

These are just my individual experiences with the models I own.

 

Hi Mr. E6系,

 

Many thanks for this very nice sharing... Really appreciated.. :)