Buying a GranClass Upgrade when you have a Japan Rail Pass

[TestudoToTetsudo]

So I will be in Japan in a couple of weeks.  The last few days I am in Japan, a friend will be overlapping his trip to Japan.  I'll be getting my Japan Rail Pass when I enter the country, he'll get his when he enters the country.

 

The day after my friend enters Japan, we want to ride GranClass together on the new Hokuriku Shinkansen.  We want to sit together.

 

Since I will enter Japan before my friend does, I figure I should make whatever bookings are necessary to reserve space in GranClass so we can sit together.

 

I know we'll need to buy the seat fee/GranClass surcharge tickets.  My question is: can I buy this for a friend in addition to myself, when my friend is not present/in the country/does not have his Japan Rail Pass yet, at the JR Service Center at Narita when I enter the country?

 

Thanks.

[katoftw]

Yes and you will have to pay for it then and there.  But you'll also have to pay the reservation fee as a pass is not present at time of booking.

Edited May 2, 2015 by katoftw

[TestudoToTetsudo]

Thanks katoftw, yes I figured I'd have to pay up front.

 

Now I just have to figure out how to word my request without confusing the JR agents at Narita, who probably know some English but may not know enough to navigate a really unusual situation.

Edited May 2, 2015 by TestudoToTetsudo

[JR 500系]

Hope this can help you:

 

I print out tiny pieces of paper in Japanese for booking for trains during my trip. They look like these:

 

新幹線さくら 544号, 博多駅から, 神戸駅へ, 09：43午前出発, 12:10に到着, 二つグリーン車の座席お願い致します (N700系)

 

These are then passed to the staff in the Midori-No-Madaguchi (Reservation Office) when I make a reservation. It helps a lot and almost no questions were asked, unless of course if there were no seats available. Perhaps you can try something like this:

 

新幹線はくたか XXX号, 金沢駅から, 東京駅へ, XX：XX出発, XX:XXに到着, 二つグランクラスの座席お願い致します

 

Replace (XXX) with your Hakutaka number, time of departure and time of arrival.

 

They will most probably then proceed to tell you Grand Class is not covered by your Rail pass, and then how much to pay if you want to use them. You can then try to tell them by showing your own JR Pass so they know only one has the pass, the other don't.

 

Hoped that helps!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jensen]

From my last trip I've upgraded twice. If nothing has changed, you are only covered for the base fares, you will have to pay for the reserve seat as well as express charges. For example

Tokyo to Kanazawa 

Base Fares 7340 yen

+ Green 11410 yen

+ Gran 19630 yen

i'm not sure the cost to upgrade Gran class from Green class, but you will need to pay 19630 yen for one way from Tokyo - Kanazawa.

 

I'm not sure if you can purchase for your friend since the pass is not present when reserving a seat. All you need to do is write date, train number and class you want to reserve. 

 

It might be cheeky, but you might get away reserving one ticket at Narita when you get the pass, reserve another seat when you get to Tokyo or your next station. 

 

I show them a list of the train I want to book including date, train number and seat preference, when I purchase my pass.  

Edited May 5, 2015 by Jensen

[TestudoToTetsudo]

I just thought of a possible workaround.

 

My wife, myself and my friend all would prefer to have 3 seats together (so a row) in GranClass.

 

My Mom and Dad will be in Japan on their Japan Rail Passes when my wife and I get there, and are fluent in Japanese.

 

IF the seat reservation ticket AND the GranClass ticket BOTH do NOT have the name of a passenger on them, I wonder if we could go to the ticket office the first day we're all in Japan together, and then act like my wife, myself and one of my parents want to get GranClass upgrades for the specific Hokuriku Shinkansen trip which my friend, wife and I want.  And then I simply take the reservation and GranClass ticket issued for my Mom or Dad and give it to my friend on the platform in Kanazawa?

 

Does anyone know if passenger name information is in any way coded to the booking for GranClass on the Hokuriku Shinkansen, either on the ticket or in some manifest?  I want to make sure there's no rule against this kind of workaround (since Japan can be a VERY bureaucratic mess if you run into issues or do unusual things).  Maybe Mom could say to the agent that her husband has a Japan Rail Pass as well, and see if either of them can use the upgrade if he does the trip instead of her?

 

What do you all think?

Edited May 9, 2015 by TestudoToTetsudo

[katoftw]

In the JR computer system there is.  And also they stamp the pass with they station/staff id, so all transactions can be traced.

 

Just pay the extra reservation fee.

[Jensen]

As far as I'm aware, the times I have upgraded they only glance at the pass to check the validity. I'm speaking for the JR East Pass (Upgrade) and JR West Pass (Seat Reservation) and have not used Japan Rail Pass before. They issued a tickets after checking it and seat availability,  just like that. I would be 95% sure they don't need names and other details.

[TestudoToTetsudo]

In the JR computer system there is.  And also they stamp the pass with they station/staff id, so all transactions can be traced.

 

Just pay the extra reservation fee.

 

Thanks.  I should add my friend will have a Japan Rail Pass, but won't arrive into the country until 24 hours beforehand, so there may not be any 3-seat rows left open that close in, hence wanting to snag the seat assignment ahead of time.

 

However if buying a whole revenue ticket (rail fare + reservation fee + GranClass Upgrade), effectively double-paying for the rail fare portion, is the simplest way to ensure we can all sit together, then I guess we may need to do that in order to be guaranteed the ability to ride together.

[katoftw]

you only need to pay the reservation + upgrade fees at time of reservation, the fare will be covered by the pass.

[Kitayama]

Isn't there a possibilty to do a reservation without having the basic rail fare ticket? The Japanese ticket system is split on rail fare and surcharges. As the Japan Rail Pass doesn't give any discount on the surcharge for GranClass, it should be possible to buy it without the rail fare ticket (in this case JR Rail Pass ). It's not the same case as when we have discussed reservations on e.g. SL Hitoyoshi, where the reservation fee is discounted by the Japan Rail Pass.

[JR 500系]

Hhmmm... this is interesting. I refer to JR Pass official web page quote:

 

The JAPAN RAIL PASS is not valid for any seats, reserved or non-reserved, on “NOZOMI” and “MIZUHO” trains on the Tokaido, Sanyo and Kyushu Shinkansen lines. (The pass holders must take “HIKARI,” “SAKURA,” “KODAMA,” or “TSUBAME” trains.) If you use a “NOZOMI” or “MIZUHO” train, you must pay the basic fare and the limited express charge, and for a Green Car the Green Car surcharge.
In addition, if you use the GranClass car of the Tohoku Shinkansen and Hokuriku Shinkansen, you must pay the limited express charge and the GranClass car surcharge.
Note also that passengers using JR trains on non-JR lines must pay additional fares and charges for sections traveled on such lines. Some JR trains use the lines of private railways for direct services.

 

 

Special attention to this line: If you use a “NOZOMI” or “MIZUHO” train, you must pay the basic fare and the limited express charge, and for a Green Car the Green Car surcharge.
In addition, if you use the GranClass car of the Tohoku Shinkansen and Hokuriku Shinkansen, you must pay the limited express charge and the GranClass car surcharge.

 

They mentioned basic fare, so I guess even of with the Pass you have to pay the basic fare too? But perhaps that is only for Nozomi and Mizuho?

 

It's also 'in addition' to the Gran Class, so that means it should be:" Basic fare + Limited Express Surcharge + Gran Class seat'? Or just 'Limited Express Surcharge + Gran Class surcharge'?  

 

Also, without the Physical JR Pass, how would you make the reservation not paying the basic fare?

 

The SL Hitoyoshi was different. A good friend helped to purchase mine, and it was only 850 yen. No JR Pass was shown actually during the time of reservation. It was also not required to be presented inside the train itself, but only presented at the entrance to the JR Station itself to enter the station.

Edited May 10, 2015 by JR 500系

[bikkuri bahn]

I believe for JR East Tohoku Shinkansen, as it states, you pay for the limited express (特急料金） and Gran Class surcharges.  The distance charge　(普通運賃） is covered by the pass.　Each railway company has different rules with regards to premium services.

[Kitayama]

The Japan Rail Pass covers the basic fare for Tohoku Shinkansen and Hokuriku Shinkansen regardless of class.

If you want to use GranClass, you have to pay the Limited Express Surcharge (which normally is covered by Japan Rail Pass,

But not in this case) as well as the Gran Class surcharge. So far, no doubts.

 

My question is if it is possible to do a reservation by just paying these surcharges, claiming that you will buy the basic fare ticket later.

Technically it is possible. I have bought basic fare tickets and surcharge tickets separately - but in that order. Is it allowed to do the opposite? If so, it solves the problem.

[Kitayama]

Example:

Price for Gran Class Tokyo - Shin-Aomori according to Hyperdia.

 

Total:¥ 28,140(TicketFare:¥ 10,150 Seat Fee:¥ 17,990)

10150 covered by Japan Rail Pass. 17990 not covered by the pass (sum of limited express and GranClass surcharges).

[Kitayama]

The answer to my question is YES. I found this on the JR East Reservation site:

 

Only Limited Express Reserved Seat Tickets for JR-East Shinkansen and Limited Express trains can be reserved on this site. When riding a Shinkansen or a Limited Express, in addition to a Limited Express Reserved Seat Ticket, a Basic Fare Ticket is also necessary, but the Basic Fare Ticket can be purchased at any JR station after you arrive in Japan. People who have a JAPAN RAIL PASS, a JR EAST PASS, or a JR Kanto Area Pass do not need to buy the Basic Fare Ticket (the PASS covers the Basic Fare).

 

http://www.eki-net.com/pc/jreast-shinkansen-reservation/English/wb/common/faq/faq.html

Edited May 10, 2015 by Kitayama

[TestudoToTetsudo]

The answer to my question is YES. I found this on the JR East Reservation site:

 

Only Limited Express Reserved Seat Tickets for JR-East Shinkansen and Limited Express trains can be reserved on this site. When riding a Shinkansen or a Limited Express, in addition to a Limited Express Reserved Seat Ticket, a Basic Fare Ticket is also necessary, but the Basic Fare Ticket can be purchased at any JR station after you arrive in Japan. People who have a JAPAN RAIL PASS, a JR EAST PASS, or a JR Kanto Area Pass do not need to buy the Basic Fare Ticket (the PASS covers the Basic Fare).

 

http://www.eki-net.com/pc/jreast-shinkansen-reservation/English/wb/common/faq/faq.html

 

So in other words, my friend, my wife and I can buy the Reserved Seat and GranClass upgrade online from this website, even before having our PASS?!  That's great and solves the problem!

 

I'll have to look into this!  Thank you for the information!

Edited May 10, 2015 by TestudoToTetsudo

[TestudoToTetsudo]

So in other words, my friend, my wife and I can buy the Reserved Seat and GranClass upgrade online from this website, even before having our PASS?!  That's great and solves the problem!

 

I'll have to look into this!  Thank you for the information!

 

The answer to my question is YES. I found this on the JR East Reservation site:

 

Only Limited Express Reserved Seat Tickets for JR-East Shinkansen and Limited Express trains can be reserved on this site. When riding a Shinkansen or a Limited Express, in addition to a Limited Express Reserved Seat Ticket, a Basic Fare Ticket is also necessary, but the Basic Fare Ticket can be purchased at any JR station after you arrive in Japan. People who have a JAPAN RAIL PASS, a JR EAST PASS, or a JR Kanto Area Pass do not need to buy the Basic Fare Ticket (the PASS covers the Basic Fare).

 

http://www.eki-net.com/pc/jreast-shinkansen-reservation/English/wb/common/faq/faq.html

 

Thanks again for this info!

 

The site is for JR EAST and you can only book from JR EAST stations, so my friend, wife and I will ride in Jiyuseki from Kanazawa to Joetsumyoko, then upgrade to GranClass for the last two hours, which was only $99US (per the current exchange rate) for the reserved fee and upgrade (per Hyperdia), a great deal for 2 hours in GranClass!

Edited May 10, 2015 by TestudoToTetsudo

[Kitayama]

Hmmm... Maybe I should have done the same. Travelling from Joetsumyoko to Takasaki on May 22.

[katoftw]

I'm gonna stop typing.  I've answered the question twice on 2 separate posts and been ignored.

[TestudoToTetsudo]

I'm gonna stop typing.  I've answered the question twice on 2 separate posts and been ignored.

 

I hope you don't think I was ignoring you, thank you for your input on the fact that base distance fare is included in the pass, while you pay for the seat fee and reservation fee.

 

The website Kitayama mentions allowed me to make a booking for three online for the seat fee + reservation fee for the JR EAST part of the Hokuriku Shinkansen without double paying the basic distance fare covered under the pass.  Being able to buy the seat + reservation fees in advance before arriving in Japan, while covering the base rail fare under the pass, was my objective.  I'll simply pick up the tickets when I arrive in Narita.  When I mentioned to my friend that the seat + reservation fee from Joetsumyoko to Tokyo was only $99 US, he thought it would be the best bargain to ride jiyuseki from Kanazawa to Joetsumyoko and switch to GranClass there, and booking the three seats now before any of us got to Japan maximizes our ability to get a seat assignment together even if the train fills up later on.  All three of us will have Japan Rail Passes to present on travel day, and all three seat and reservation fees would have been booked in one booking under my name, and I'm travelling.  We can all sit together as the seat reservations were made all at once together (with the box indicating willingness to be split up unchecked on the website), even though my wife and I will receive our passes ~10 days before this train ride, while my friend will enter Japan and receive his pass one day before the train ride.  So it shouldn't be an awkward situation, unless anyone spots any issues in what I just described, and unless I misread anything posted here.

 

Thank you katoftw and kitayama for your information!