Camera Car

[bc6]

Hey Guys, I have one of those micro cameras used as a Nanny Cam doing nothing but collecting dust  I was thinking about getting a Series 700 Shinkasen and stuffing my micro wireless cam in the shell of it. Im curious does anyone know where I can get more info on the Tomix Rail-Cam or something similar to it maybe a home grown project or something. Come to think of it an Inspection car would be nice but not my Dr. Yellow lol.

[Guest ___]

The person I know who has done two of them is not on here. JEff, might have some insight as well as we have one that runs on the JRM layout. Actually two of them.

 

We have a tan version of the Ocean Arrow that the club runs that has a camera in it. The other camera is a camera mounted on a flatcar, which works better. The scratch built one is better because it runs off of an internal power supply, a small button battery.

 

The TOMIX one runs off of track power, so as a result the picture sorta sucks. I suspect that if we had all-wheel pickup it might be better, but as the result of the single car pickup the pictures goes in and out of static everytime it his dirty track. It's pretty annoying.

 

One thing I will not is that it might be tough to get a camera small enough that will have an angle of view tight enough for a shinkansen window. The TOMIX we use vignettes despite it being through an large ob-window at the front of the train.

[cteno4]

As aaron said one of our jrm members has mounted one of the smaller japanese systems (not the tomix system) in an ocean arrow. i have one of these cameras as well and have not yet mounted it in a car. the options are limited even with the smaller cameras as the camera lens is usually in the middle of the camera so you need a lower window for it to line up well. a 700 would be tough i think.

 

the other little remote cameras you can find around cheap (ie the nanny cams) are usually a tad too big to fit into an N scale frame. over the last few years i have picked up a few of them to fiddle with and none have really been an easy match and why i ended up ordering one of the small japanese ones with ken. the unit also takes track power to charge its battery so you can keep it charged while running.

 

all these systems have the problem of a fair amount of picture flicker. it helps to get the antenna in to the center of the layout, but still there is some flicker that will always be there. many folks have had this problem with the rail cams.

 

one other option to get some train flicks, while not live, would be to try and adapt one of the tiny USB pen cameras. the ones that i looked at might fit w/in an N scale frame, but you may have to remove the standard size USB plug and move to a micro usb plug. i have not torn one apart to see if the pc board width is the same as the standard USB connector, but that would be my guess on this. also camera itself is usually soldered directly to the pc board so this could be a problem as on the pen cameras the camera is mounted at an right angle to the pc board.

 

the tomix system seems to have very little flicker in it form the videos i have seen and is probably the best around, but expensive. it uses the cl system for power and sends the video signal back across the tracks, probably why it has a clean signal.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[bill937ca]

Japanese language pages on the Tomix system.  Select Report #29, Vol 1 and Vol 2.

 

http://www.tomytec.co.jp/tomix/menu/tomix_n_menu.htm

[Guest ___]

the tomix system seems to have very little flicker in it form the videos i have seen and is probably the best around, but expensive. it uses the cl system for power and sends the video signal back across the tracks, probably why it has a clean signal.

 

All assuming your track is clean of course 

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Which camera systems have you used successfully on which cars?

 

Saw the Tomix system for $450 and knew there had to be a better way to transmit live video at a show.

 

I can care less about the end result of how the camera car looks whether it is built on a doublestack or a modified Express Train.

[KenS]

None, but I'm really interested in the answers you get.  This is something I want to do.

[David]

The Tomix system is really old technology and all but requires that everything else touching the track be Tomix to allow the video over rails signal.

 

I'm sure that you could put a miniature wifi/wireless camera in a regular car. The main challenge would be power. It would either need to be battery powered (which might require a second tethered car) or somehow charge off the rails. If it's off the rails, you'd need DCC since DC would provide less power the slower then train went.

 

One possible power source would be a super capacitor - these are the solid state 'batteries' used in those "charge for 30 seconds, run for 5 minutes" mini RC models. Compared to chemical batteries these trade off charge retention and single cell voltage for an order of magnitude higher charge/discharge capability.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_double-layer_capacitor

 

Expect to find a lot of semi-not safe for work types websites if you go looking for inexpensive CCD micro cameras.

 

Edit: I should add one cavet, I assume you want something that transmits live video like the Tomix system. If you only want to record a drivers eye view the model airplane industry has already driven the development of a number of very small self powered cameras that can record for 1-2 hours onto flash memory.

[KenS]

Could you point to some of those airplane cameras?  For my purposes, video to flash for later replay would be sufficient, although I'd like to have real-time if I can find it.

 

I know it can be done, as I've seen a few postings about these, but the only one I managed track down was from a supplier who had gone out of business.

[cteno4]

Ken,

 

lots of little spy camera/recorders you can get for as little as $10 that actually take pretty decent quality video. just wire them to flat car and run around if you only want to get video of the layout. there are scads of them out there now days, just have to make sure it will fit on the car and around the layout well. most are just basically pin hole lenses, nothing special. many either have a usb plug on one end (just about the width of an n scale car) to charge and either internal storage chip have a or have use a micro sd card for storage. i picked up a little cigarette lighter one for like $8 from deal extreme to play with, not bad video for $8 to play with.

 

the micro rf cameras are around for n scale. another jrm member and i have the micro japanese cameras from rf system lab that makes endoscopes. they were about $100 and had a small nmhi battery that is charged from the track power, so you can get some camera time when the train is stopped. looks like the company has stopped making them though.

 

hard part is getting the parts miniaturized to fit well into n scale trains if you want it totally hidden. i have a few micro cameras ive picked up cheap over the years to play with. some have bit more substantial lenses are that are hard to fit into the front of a train with a clear view. others have a pc board that is just a couple of mm too wide to fit in a regular train. unfortunately the cameras are usually integrated onto the pc board. while you could try and separate them, its a bit of a chore and might introduce some issues into the system. even the little usb spy cameras all use a USB male connector on one end of the pc board so that sort of sets the size of the board which is just a tad wide to fit inside a car. again you could rip it up to do a micro connector.

 

i have not looked at the fancier rc units, but the simpler ones i have seen again are just a tad large to fit w/in a car body, but should work on a camera car. most r/c planes dont have the space limits of an n scale car body, but more weight restriction.

 

the main systems that you can get for train cameras are battery powered with like 30-60 minutes range. of course you can usually fit more cells into a car as well and theres a great range of nimh and lithium cells out there now days.

 

its going to be hard to get a really clean rf signal from the layout, lots of things that can cause the interference and the transmission power is pretty low. the videos of the tomix cameras seemed to have very very clean signals by transmitting over the tracks. but as others have mentioned you need to be all tomix to make sure it works right!

 

good news is this is something getting better and better all the time. cell phone camera lenses are getting quite good and hopefully make their way into these little camera systems that can be put in trains!

 

thing im into now with the cameras is to place them on interesting places on the layout and then have those on some screens so you can see the view from an n scale person's POV as the train goes by. want to mount a camera in the new jrm shinkansen station im working on so you can see the trains go thru the station. have to work out what the best placement will be though.

 

btw, there are some plans out there on the web to make interesting follow the rails pan mechanisms for train cameras. makes for much nicer views on the curves instead of the whiplash views you usually get from a 60-80' car on tight radiuses!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Tecchan]

Last week I saw a camera Märklin ICE. It comes with screen-glasses.

 

 

I don't know the resolution of the camera but I must say driving an HO train with the feeling you are actually inside with those glasses on your nose must be nice!

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Many of these pin hole coin sized cams I see are really 19mm wide. How wide are the cams you used?

 

Panning mechanism? Like an active headlamp?  Probably can use the vertical electrical posts off some of the material trucks or the coupler to physically pan the camera. Use a low profile chassis like an articulated car with some foam sponge for shock absorption. The cam must have some insulation from shock.

[cteno4]

basically used a physical arm to the front truck to swing and aim the camera to the center of the track ahead instead of the tangent line with the car body.

 

quick look around i cant find it, but here is one where he tried mounting the camera on the truck out in front of the car.

 

http://www.mymrq.com/myMRQ/Aspfiles/DetailPage.asp?Xfer_Code=40001550&CatCode=R

 

btw while looking around i found one guy that has a camera that he had to point upwards and used a mirror to get the ahead view, neat.

 

http://www.glenvigus.com/wordpress/2010/03/n-scale-camera-car/

 

cheers

 

jeff

[cteno4]

Last week I saw a camera Märklin ICE. It comes with screen-glasses.

 

I don't know the resolution of the camera but I must say driving an HO train with the feeling you are actually inside with those glasses on your nose must be nice!

 

cool idea for train immersion! those glasses are getting cheaper and cheaper!

 

there are companies in japan that have portable 'party' layouts you can rent and they have a separate train cab area where you only have the controller and train cam on a flat screen to run the train from! kids get to take turn running the train from the cab view only.

 

train cams on the jrm layout are a very big hit. probably the worst problem we have with 'fingers' though as folks (yes many adults included) love to try to wiggle their fingers in front of the camera. only problem is as they are wiggling they are usually looking at the screen and not where there fingers are in relationship to the layout and trains. even though the train is bearing down on them there seems to be a disconnect in the brain that its about to run into their fingers! definitely some odd neuro pathway that flips like this...

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Tecchan]

Last week I saw a camera Märklin ICE. It comes with screen-glasses.

 

I don't know the resolution of the camera but I must say driving an HO train with the feeling you are actually inside with those glasses on your nose must be nice!

 

there are companies in japan that have portable 'party' layouts you can rent and they have a separate train cab area where you only have the controller and train cam on a flat screen to run the train from! kids get to take turn running the train from the cab view only.

 

 

I've seen such a thing in Hikone. Now I regret that I didn't ask to try.

 

Train Shop in Hikone by loriskumo, on Flickr

(if you look closely, you will see Totoro waiting on the platform! ^_^)

 

They were really nice people and when I told them I had a Tomix Shinkansen, the lady ran in the shop, picked a box of Tomytec houses and they offered it to me. I didn't even buy anything, I just looked in this shop.

[clem24]

A lot of the cams that you guys are referring to like the pen spy cams don't transmit in real time, do they? I've done lots of searching and it's hard to find something small AND transmits through RF at the same time. Most just save to onboard memory, which makes them slightly useless. I have one that looks sort of like this:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Wireless-Spy-Nanny-Mini-Micro-Camera-FULL-SYSTEM-/390120901957?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad5048d45

 

It's small enough to fit on a flat car, and with some mods, I am sure I can fit it into a Shinkansen body (but not willing to sacrifice any of my Shinkansen in my roster right now hehehe). It does run off a 9V battery, so I'd need to find some alternative power. The rechargeable battery with track charging is an AMAZING idea. I've love to see some links for that system.

 

Also in one of my old Japanese model mags, there was an advert for a wireless cam system from some company, can't remember their name, but I do know that they web address doesn't work and Google searches turn up nothing, so I can only assume they've gone out of business. Might even be the same system that's been referred to in this thread.

[cteno4]

Clem,

 

yep right if you dont want real time you can use those pen/lighter/etc spy cameras that record to a micro SD card. you will get a bit better resolution and none of the interference, so if you are looking for just good video of the layout from a train POV then those are the easier and better way to go.

 

if you want real time you need something like the little nanny cam you linked. most of the systems out there are based on basically this little camera system. i would not be surprised if many used the same components! i have 3 cheap ones here an they are all nearly identical once you pull it down to the camera board. these will work fine on a flat car, but they are just a tad to large to mount inside say a commuter car. the pc board is just a tad too wide and the ccd/lens is mounted to the center of the pc board and looks to be tough to separate.

 

im sure there are smaller ones out there in the spy cam world that are rf broadcasters, but the price will go up! rf also eats up the battery faster to do the transmission and the cleaner the transmission the stronger the signal would need to be and thus more power needed. it does help if you can locate the receiver in the center of your layout for better reception. we need to do this with the jrm systems and then just run a long video cable over to the table where the monitor usually is.

 

the one i think you may have seen advertised is the RF Lab units that ken and i have that does the track recharging. its a nice little unit, but unfortunately they dont make it anymore and the page is gone for the old link i had for it. RF Lab did a bunch of tiny cameras for endoscopes and other medical devices and had this one unit for a while. i think someone there was a hobbyist and tried to see if they could branch out. didnt seem to last more than about 6 months and then no more word from them doing hobby cameras. was nice as they seemed to be a quality camera company and use to doing more specialized circuits for the needs of the system.

 

to charge form the track you might be able to use a little voltage limiter charging circuit, dealextreme.com has some, but most i think are based on 3-5v range for rechargeable flashlight systems. most of the cheap spy cams work on 9v, but i expect they just do that to have a small battery and probably drop the voltage down pretty fast to 3-5v. sure something could be designed to do this. i have always wanted to play more with the cam systems, but just have not gotten around to it yet and i figure its one of those things that will get better and cheaper with time!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[bigford]

there is a guy named Peter Wisniewski on the atlas board that installed a cam in a p42

its in the kato gallery here are 2 pics

http://www.katousa.com/gallery/albums/Peter-Wisniewski/aak.sized.jpg

http://www.katousa.com/gallery/albums/Peter-Wisniewski/aab.sized.jpg

[cteno4]

thanks bigford. hmm wonder what camera he is using?! looks just the right size. guessing he is using track power with a voltage limiter, great with DCC!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Guest Closed Account 1]

This should help feed the fire.

 

http://www.katousa.com/gallery/Peter-Wisniewski/aao?full=1

[clem24]

Holy smokes that thing's amazing!!! But let's see some real footage hehehe. Also the P42 is quite a bit narrower than any JR rolling stock that I have! So then maybe something like an EF65 would make a good camera car (after some good deal of hacking). I've got a TON of Japanese Kato locos that I'd be more than willing to experiment on hehehe.

 

What would you guys recommend for hacking the metal? Probably just a Dremel?

[David]

There has been a camera car thread over at the other forum, and I think the definitive post has been made. Check out the prototype this camera is mounted in.

 

http://n-spoor.nl/bouwtips/videowagen/traincam-flyer.pdf

[Martijn Meerts]

Seems this is the camera set in question.. A bit pricey, but still quite interesting :)

 

http://www.dcctrain.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=4335

[David]

Tony's trains appears to have carried it at one time for $169, however some comments on their site show the parts where difficult to get

 

http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/traincam.htm

 

This is the maker, it would seem they actually build their stuff for medical which is a much bigger market then support some cranky old people who constantly complain about not having free replacements.

 

http://www.rfamerica.com/

[Tenorikuma]

I was never interested in train cameras until I read this thread, and now I think controlling a model train with a computer monitor and cab view like a first-person video game would be the awesomest thing ever.