Woodland Scenics (Scenic Ridge Kit)

[inobu]

A year ago I made the suggestion of starting out (First Layout) with WS Scenic Ridge. I thought I would go back and build one myself using their kit and methodology (Dont tell someone to do something you would not do yourself). Well to my surprise there are a lot of issues with the kit. Although it is still the best option for starting out there are indeed a few issues that one should be aware of.

 

First off what you see on the box is not what is in the box. The Track layout map does not run the true path of the layout depicted on the box. The risers design does not create the same grade as depicted on the cover. For a beginner this can be confusing as it leads the builder to believe he has done something wrong.

 

Following the directions step by step will not yield what is on the cover so be aware of that.

 

Next is the track. The Atlas track pack that is recommended is very dangerous in that it is a "hodge podge" of track pieces that will follow the center line of the track map but from an operational stand point it will be a nightmare. There will be at least 376 track joints. Meaning you will have potential for voltage drops over the complete layout. 10 minutes into the build I knew to switch over to flex track. With Flex track and soldering the joints I was able to maintain a loss of .3v along the complete layout with only 2 feeders. It is about 20ft of track

 

Here's where the contradiction in the kit comes about.

 

If one had the skill set to lay flex track then they would not need the kit in order to complete a build. This holds true but the kit still offers a lot more in that you have the guidelines to complete the build in its entirety. Following the manual touches on every aspect of a build and will cause you to purchase all the tools needed. When its time to build a better layout you will have a good foundation to work with.

 

This build is more so an opportunity to glean a bit of knowledge from a kit build out. I have picked up a few new tricks from this build.

 

So, in closing I still would recommend the kit but would warn that the end results won't be exactly like the cover and a few modifications are in order to get the layout in operational order.

 

Inobu  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cteno4]

Inobu,

 

Good points and good on you to try the kit out like that!

 

I've always been a little suspicious of kits like that. Not good to show one thing and then do another. The old loose atlas joiners are not like the unitrak joiners that is for sure. We have done 30'+ loops with unitrack with a couple of feeders and little or no noticeable voltage drop when running trains. My friends layout as a kit was a large multiple oval atlas classic plan that was about 20' max on the largest loop and it required a lot of drops and blocks to make it run well all out of sectional track. We eventually soldered a lot of them! Luckily I had chosen an over and under and wanted to modify it enough that I moved to flex track (I had had it with connector issues with atlas track on the table by that point!) and had a 30' loop that only needed 3 feeders to work well (more were added as I added more blocks for control and spur additions later).

 

My first layout (good old over and under) as a kid I just defaulted (no woodland scenics kits then) to the old 3/16" ply top that I had the track plan drawn out on and just cut out 1/2" outside the roadbed line and then wedged the track lanes up at the proper grade. Was very simple to do and gives a much more smooth transistiom from flat than any wedge system. Only required a power hand jig saw to do and that's a safe and good $30 tool for any beginning model rr. The only down side is if you screw up in your track path you have to redo your top,mbut actually it's not all that bad to redo if there is a planning Disaster! It was simple for an 11 year old to build. I was a handy woodworker by then, but it was really simple woodworking for me to cut this out and make the riser chunks to put in to support the elevated strips.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[Staffy]

inobu

 

can't tell you how much I appreciate this post and your integrity

 

I've agonised over getting this kit for months; it's turbo-expensive in the UK. Your post has made my mind up, there's better ways for me to learn given what it costs and what I want

 

thank you

[inobu]

inobu

 

can't tell you how much I appreciate this post and your integrity

 

I've agonised over getting this kit for months; it's turbo-expensive in the UK. Your post has made my mind up, there's better ways for me to learn given what it costs and what I want

 

thank you

Thanks!

 

But I would not count it out. Building a layout is difficult even with its flaws I still find it beneficial. Its not until your third or forth layout that things will eve be close to nice or good. Its just too many trades involved.

 

Check out this guys blog.

 

Mind game

 

Building a layout is a mind game. You will talk yourself into things and then out of things, round and round just to end up nowhere. At least with the kit the directions keeps you focus.

 

Then after its done you enjoy it

 

 

then the mind games again and you have to do this to get past it.

 

 

 

.

I would venture to say Quinn did this in order to stop the loop. Once it was on the ground it was end of discussion. At that point he could move on. (Been there done that myself).

 

 

 

What appears to be an expensive kit.......isn't really. It may give you a piece of mind in that you are doing something more so than the torment of constantly thinking about what you want to do without ever doing anything.

 

I think you should ask yourself if you are going to plan and design a complete layout, gather all the components for completion or is it easier to buy the kit and start from there. The answer to that question will be your first step.

 

We are our worst enemy (speaking from experience)

 

In any case good luck.

 

Inobu

 

P.S. I'm trying to get the road in as we speak. If my plan does not work today I'm just going to throw anything in just to keep the project going.

Edited July 23, 2016 by inobu

[cteno4]

Good point kits can keep you on track. But I think the more valuable path is to get some track and set it up on a table and play. Start trying some different plans, plop down some buildings or even just mock them up with styrofoam blocks, paper cutouts or cardboard. Construction paper for roads and even scenery types. Cardboard, wadded taped down newspaper can make mountains and hillsides. All super easy for the beginner to do. Mistakes take little time and little or no money to rectify and most importantly they don't slam you into a wall which stalls out so many beginners.

 

I see this as a super valuable step to not only plan for what they want in the layout (i.e. Track plan, scenes, etc) but it shows you quickly what the kit does, but in a more intuitive and self discovery fashion, of the steps, order of steps, pitfalls, and solutions. Kits do hold your hand and give you a very direct path, but they don't always teach and are not frustration free. I think a beginner can do well with the self discovery approach if they take the time to play first and it's fun and valuable thru your whole life in the hobby and I think should never stop!

 

My first layout i mentioned was an atlas track plan over and under. It used the standard pier set for the grades. I had played with them before going to this track plan (I had been given a big box of old atlas track and accessories from a garage sale) in doing some grades and I found the piers were a bit steep in the grade and I had the room in the track plan to reduce the grade greatly and also make the terrain on the small layout less extreme (again I had used taped up paper to try to visualize what the scenery would be like using the piers), so I looked for the way to make a custom grade. After looking thru some model railroaders and train books I decided the simple plywood cutout method would do the trick. I first did it with just cardboard cut out and propped up with slices of cardboard, taped it down some, laid out the sectional track and even pinned it in place with track nails -- only took an afternoon to get it all done! This is where I started to realize that it might work to do a double track layout so I was able to add some width to the grade. Doing it all on the layout in plywood was another afternoons work. At the same time I became aware of the limits of sectional track with all my playing and helping my friend with his oval layout and started to play with doing a lot more of the layout with flex track. Again if I did not have the playing around and experimenting phase I would have followed the atlas playbook of all sectional and not had as much as I could in the layout. My friend took that route of following the step by step atlas playbook plan/path and ended up with a flat boring layout that we had to fiddle with to get running well. He never finished his layout and lost interest pretty quickly. We were doing these in parallel, but he just wanted to jump to the layout with no fiddling (and picked the biggest one in the plan book) and just blindly followed the steps -- ven though he was seeing me play and experiment and even helping he just never connected the dots to his own layout as he wanted to stay on the book path. I dallied some, played, and chose the medium layout with the more interesting plan, ended up modifying it some, and allowed for a few expansions later. My layout got finished, I enjoyed it emmensly, itstayed around until college she I needed a real desk in my room and the layout had sort of reached it max, and the hobby has stuck my whole life.

 

To me this just came natural as my experience was to fiddle a while before diving in and this taught me that I could usually figure out a lot fast this way and rarely get stuck in a corner later. Even if I did hit a bump, I didn't get frustrated, just stopped for a bit, fiddled and then usually a solution showed itself and I could fix the issue and continue. This gives you a great sense of accomplishment and can really increase drive and momentum. More importantly it usually left an important lesson learned well as I figured it out, it was not told to me. So while kits can be handy, I do think there are other options that can get you there just as well or better and even be cheaper in the short and long run.

 

Cheer

 

Jeff

[inobu]

Its a mind game as to what a person will and can do in the long run. I think one has to look in the mirror first to identify their strengths and weaknesses. If someone weakness is organization then they should go for the kit. If their strength is creativity and discipline then there is no need for a kit.

 

I think Nike said it best.

 

 

Use which ever means get you  to start go for it and Just Do it.

 

Inobu  

 

Stupid road has me running in circles. lol

 

See, I came back to look at pavement ended up on you tube watching track and field then here.

 

Please Focus search Smooth it. 

[velotrain]

> The risers design does not create the same grade as depicted on the cover.

 

Are you saying that there is less grade separation at the crossing than is shown?

 

Have you asked WS about this?

 

Perhaps they just got cheap and figured they could use less material that way.

[inobu]

> The risers design does not create the same grade as depicted on the cover.

 

Are you saying that there is less grade separation at the crossing than is shown?

 

Have you asked WS about this?

 

Perhaps they just got cheap and figured they could use less material that way.

Yes,

Yes,

 

If you look at the box cover you can see that there is an original design and someone (WS) tried to copy the layout using their basic components. The kit comes with a 1" to 2" rise in 24". That rise is too steep for the turn on the right side also the track radius is different than the track map. I called and talked with CS but it didn't seem like anything was going to happen. Its not like they will redesign and retool the kit. So I just kept on with the build.

 

In any case I'm posting for a FYI so people can address the issues ahead of time and have a decent first layout.

 

Inobu

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2016 by inobu

[velotrain]

I read Spookshow's blog on building it

 

http://www.spookshow.net/layout2.html

 

and his images look very close to the WS promo photo to my eyes, although I think he does mention a 4% grade.

[inobu]

I read Spookshow's blog on building it

 

http://www.spookshow.net/layout2.html

 

and his images look very close to the WS promo photo to my eyes, although I think he does mention a 4% grade.

Yes, he had a lot of prior experience which allowed him to catch it which is my point. A first time builder won't see it. You have to adjust the grade in different places to level the tracks out. Look at page 11 on the instruction sheet and you can see the turn is right in the middle of the rise. 

 

I got over zealous and glued the risers too fast. I should have fixed it then but just left it and continued on. Now my crossing is at a slant. For me it doesn't matter as I'm doing it to learn a few new techniques.

 

Inobu  

[nah00]

My LHS actually sells a set of Unitrack to use on this instead of the Atlas track. I don't know how well it fits but it seems like a much better option. 

[kvp]

I read through the build log that was linked. Most of the errors came from not reading it through before construction, because a few things are only mentioned later (out of order). By reading it first, making an in order list, the problems should not happen. I think soldering the rail joins together (with some unsoldered thermal expansion joins every meter or so) is good enough so the included set pieces could be used.

 

For a beginner kit, i would have included a machine cut styrene/foam/wood terrain grid, that is always the right shape and height and could be used as the base frame and could carry the flat surfaces for tracks, roads and building foundations.

 

Personally i think that it's a nice little US prototype layout, but some of the techniques are rather old and i really don't like using small access holes. A removable full backside or removable mountains make maintenance easier. The trick is that ever inch of tunnel track has to be easily reachable by hand while holding a cleaning towel. This would also allow easy ballasting after the mountains are installed and any track repairs later.

[inobu]

That track pack is bad. There are over 20 pieces that are 2 inches or less. It makes the track unreliable in most cases. You need to be skilled in laying track in order to have competent track connections and if you had that ability there would be no need for the kit. 

 

It is a good project but builder beware.

 

Inobu

[nah00]

You would think if they were designing the layout as an 'introduction' they would have shied away from the shorter pieces. It certainly isn't much fun to have a train that only runs half of the time. 

 

Would look nice with a DMU though. 

[kvp]

It's a surprise. I would assume just connecting the joiners without bending them and maybe soldering them on the bottom would be enough to have something as reliable as flextrack.

[nah00]

Sadly no. My experience with Atlas sectional track (granted, it was HO) was that it was a lot of upkeep and you NEVER got the angle you wanted quite right. The connection just isn't secure even if you nail/pin down the track and it's also subject to the whims of the roadbed moving during heat and humidity.

[kvp]

That's why i suggested soldering the pieces together at the joiners. It's always a good idea if you plan to ballast the track. Also cuts down the number of required feeders.

[nah00]

Well in my case let's just say I'm not the best at soldering in the world...my track would probably end up looking like an industrial accident. Plus I kind of feel that for a beginner kit soldering shouldn't be needed to keep trains running.