Dutch Trains

[SIG442]

I have a few Dutch trains, made a few photo's for you guys.

 

Album link:

https://www.facebook.com/SIG442/media_set?set=a.10153443619315452.1073741860.706925451&type=3

 

Dutch 'Sprinter' train, used as local stop-train. Currently no longer in these colors on the railroads.

They are always in either 2 or 3  wagons, they can however be connected together to lengthen the train.

 

Dutch locomotive for several usages around the railroad, construction, pulling trains within and around stations

and even within harbors they are sometimes used to pull around containers and ships.

These are no longer in service although there are still many in operational condition.

 

2 Dutch wagons, passenger one and the other is for 'Kalksteen', which translates to 'Limestone' in English.

 

I do have other Dutch trains, but decided not to take photo's of those since I got them after my dad passes

18 years ago. I think I rather honor him in getting them repaired first before anything gets posted.

 

Dutch trains that I still would love to have:

- ICE 3M

- TGV Thalys PBA

- TGV Thalys PBKA

- ICM-0 'Koploper'

- ICM-4 'koploper'

- ICM-4 'NOC*NSF' 4201 (Olympic Games, dated 2004)

- 'KLM' 'koploper' (dated 1986)

- 'Martinair' 'koploper' (dated  (1986)

- VIRM-4

- VIRM 'NOC*NSF' (Olympic Games, dated 2004)

- Sprinter Lighttrain (SLT)

- NS FLIRT (in service by 2016)

- Sprinter Nieuwe Generatie (SNG) (translates to 'Sprinter New Generation, expected 2018)

 

Of course I would love to have others as well, but these are on top of my list.

The ICM trains look similar to a Japanese train because it was based on the Dutch ICM.

I would love to own the Japanese version as well, I think it looks awesome!

 

Now for you the question, would you like to own one or more Dutch trains in your collection?

And why? (if yes, which ones would you like to own?)

[HantuBlauLOL]

Yes, Staatspoorwegen class SS1600.

[SIG442]

Mean this one?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Class_1600

[ToniBabelony]

Of course I would love to have others as well, but these are on top of my list.

The ICM trains look similar to a Japanese train because it was based on the Dutch ICM.

I would love to own the Japanese version as well, I think it looks awesome!

 

Now for you the question, would you like to own one or more Dutch trains in your collection?

And why? (if yes, which ones would you like to own?)

 

The NS ICM 'koploper' was actually designed in 1972 (source: Treindesign, page 91), whereas the JNR 581/583 series, which had gangways under the cab, were put in operation in 1967/1968. The gangway-under-cab design from the ICM was also based on a proposed design for the SGM in 1970.

 

As for Dutch trains, I would like to own some sneltram designs from Rotterdam and Amsterdam in N-scale. At the moment, I'm working on perfecting my Sneltram Utrecht 5000 Series from the pre-modernisation era for 3D printing. For the other sneltrams, I also have plans to make them as 3D printed models (next to the German B80/B100 KVB/SSB/SWB Stadtbahn, which is next in the planning).

[SIG442]

The NS ICM 'koploper' was actually designed in 1972 (source: Treindesign, page 91), whereas the JNR 581/583 series, which had gangways under the cab, were put in operation in 1967/1968. The gangway-under-cab design from the ICM was also based on a proposed design for the SGM in 1970.

 

As for Dutch trains, I would like to own some sneltram designs from Rotterdam and Amsterdam in N-scale. At the moment, I'm working on perfecting my Sneltram Utrecht 5000 Series from the pre-modernisation era for 3D printing. For the other sneltrams, I also have plans to make them as 3D printed models (next to the German B80/B100 KVB/SSB/SWB Stadtbahn, which is next in the planning).

 

1986 there was a 'Benelux-train' that was using a similar body, although not directly connected it just has the raised driver cabin on a passenger wagon basically. (can be seen on the right side of this page, nearly at the bottom. Using a 'Plan D' body: http://www.martijnhaman.nl/pland.htm Dutch website) 'Plan D' was however started in 1949 with the idea to get the trains back in to action after WW2 ( http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_D No English version available, sorry). 

[Martijn Meerts]

I'd love an N-scale koploper, but they're either in pretty bad shape or not really affordable when you come across one that's for sale. Also, some 1200 series locomotives, that's still my favorite Dutch locomotive (I have a really old Lima H0 one, but it's missing lots of parts and hasn't run for at least 30 years ;)).

[ToniBabelony]

1986 there was a 'Benelux-train' that was using a similar body, although not directly connected it just has the raised driver cabin on a passenger wagon basically.

I think you mean 1974, as that was when the rebuilt Plan-D cabin cars went in use. They were used until 1987 as such.

[Densha]

I own an NS Class 2400 diesel loco with a few accompanying freight cars by Roco and a HTM RegioCitadis tram by Halling. Also a few old Lima trains including a NS 1200 with Plan E coaches and a 4-car Mat '54 'Hondekop' EMU.

[SIG442]

I think you mean 1974, as that was when the rebuilt Plan-D cabin cars went in use. They were used until 1987 as such.

According to that page, the picture was taken in 1987. Unfortunately I do not know details about that specific train since I can't seem to find any specific data about it so far.

[HantuBlauLOL]

no, this one.

 

[SIG442]

Link doesnt show a picture unfortunately

[velotrain]

I rather like that Sik 300 crane shunter, although couldn't find any images of it in action.  I found it interesting that Sik translates to goat, and historically in American railroading the engine that handled all yard shunting duties was known as the "yard goat".  I don't know in which direction this term originally crossed the Atlantic.

 

 

 

 

I found a photo of an earlier model in the Sik series (Oersik 103), which somewhat reminds me of the German Kof shunter, being very low to the ground and apparently designed for one-man operation.  The profile of the cab is also reminiscent of some small - and usually industrial, British steam engines.

 

 

 

 

For an earlier version of the crane engine concept, Robert Stephenson & Hawthorn built a number of 0-4-0T Crane Tank engines, which worked in the Doxford Shipyard in Sunderland.  Note the massive weights on the buffers to stabilize the crane. 

 

 

 

 

A 3'6" version was built for the Rio Tinto copper mining railway in Spain, and is preserved in a museum there.

 

 

 

 

Backwoods Miniatures produces a OO kit of this engine, and many years ago I had a 009 outside-framed version built by a professional British builder - Brian Love, I think it was.  Below is an image of a very nice P4 build of the standard kit.

 

 

[200系]

Used to own a few Dutch H0 trains (Roco 1100, 1600, 2400 and Plan D coaches, Piko Mat'54, Lima Mat'46 (x2) Artitec Plan E coaches, Artitec Plan W coaches and a few freight cars) but I sold them all when I decided to focus on Japanese N gauge, with the exception of the 1100 series (Mid 1980's till 1999 version with the deformation modifications) , I've never regretted my decision to sell them. 

 

Last year I did buy a Roco Mat'64-4 Plan T (1984~1995 yellow livery, there are a few issues with this model, though I knew them before I bought it) and a Rivarossi Mat'46-2 (ELD2 281, one of the four two car formations repainted in yellow after their 1969 inspection). I also still own a Fleischmann Mat'64-2 Plan V (ELP2 888) though I'm thinking of selling it, as the wrong length (using 1:100 for length as opposed to the correct 1:87) is grating for a 'rivet counter' (yes I'm one of those dreaded creatures...) like me.

 

 

 

 

Mean this one?

https://en.wikipedia...i/NS_Class_1600

 

I think Hantu is referring to this beauty:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/meteorry/5762244237

 

NIS (Nederlands-Indische Spoorwegmaatschapij, or Dutch Indies railway company) SS1600 class. The national railway museum in Utrecht has one in it's collection, used to be one of my favorite locomotives at the museum.  

 

 

 

According to that page, the picture was taken in 1987. Unfortunately I do not know details about that specific train since I can't seem to find any specific data about it so far.

 

The Benelux (Belgium/Netherlands/Luxembourg, for those unfamiliar with the therm) push-pull formations where formed in 1974 because the twelve Mat'57 class ("Benelux Hondekop) EMU's then used, where unable to keep up with growing demand on the Amsterdam-Brussels route. As there where no other 3Kv/1.5Kv capable EMU's available at short notice with either NS or the NMBS/SNCB (in fact the 8 NS and 4 NMBS/SNCB Mat'57 formations where the only ones), they had to use whatever was available/convenient at that time.

As the NS was planning retirement of their Plan D carriages in that period (built between 1950 and 1951 by Werkspoor and Beijnes, based on pre-war "Bolkop" carriages, they where retired between 1974 and 1977) they rebuilt almost all of the redundant Plan D Rd (restaurant/luggage) carriages into WRD cab cars. NMBS/SNCB provided eight HLE25 series locomotives (built in 1960) and modified them for 1.5Kv/3Kv cross border service creating the HLE25.5 series. NMBS/SNCB also provided a number of I4 carriages (built in 1966) for Benelux services, while NS provided a number of Plan W (1st series, or W1, built by Werkspoor in 1966) and Plan L (postal carriages, based on Plan E, Werkspoor 1958) to provided the final carriage for the Benelux formations (WRD+I4 A+ I4 AB+Plan W1 (X3)+HLE25.5).

As the push-pull formations proved to be as unreliable as the Mat'57 formations, they where retired in 1987 when the new ICR based Benelus pus-pull formations entered service. The Dutch Mat'57 formations where for a limited time period on the Amsterdam-Vlissingen service, but where eventually retired in January 1988 with all of them scrapped by 1990. The WRD carriage where also scrapped with exception of one, which was used as a test train and is now slated for preservation. the I4 carriages and the 25.5 locomotives where sent back to the NMBS/SNCB, while the Plan W carriages where, after another inspection during which they where repainted in the NS IC livery, where redeployed to locomotive hauled IC services being retired in 2003.

 

 

 

whereas the JNR 581/583 series, which had gangways under the cab, were put in operation in 1967/1968. The gangway-under-cab design from the ICM was also based on a proposed design for the SGM in 1970.

 

Very true, you could even go one step further, seeing as the high cab of the 581系 can be seen as a further development of the 'Bonnet' style high cab design introduced with the 151系 in 1957, 20 years before the first prototype ICM-0 sets where delivered. the E351系 which is often the one accused of copying the ICM design, is in fact just a further development of the 151系/183系(485系 and 381系) lineage. 

 

 

Now for you the question, would you like to own one or more Dutch trains in your collection?

And why? (if yes, which ones would you like to own?)

 

I feel mixed about this, on one hand I can't deny that I really like some of the older classes (all of the EMU classes between Mat'35 and Mat'64, and DMU's like the DE3 (1934), OMBC 2900 (1937) and DE5 (1940)) if only for nostalgia sake (even though I'm too young to have experienced anything older then Mat'54 and the classic locomotives), but on the other hand did I never feel at home or in the Netherlands to say the least, neither the country nor society (even though I was born there), so even though I do like some of the trains there's always an unseen layer attached for me.

 

That said I would like another Mat'46 in the 1963-1983 grass green (without the advertisement stripes added in the late 60's early 70's)  NS livery, but while the Rivarossi variant is still available in a few places it's not of the latest revised version (the last two model variants where fitted with accurate representation of the BBC pantographs used on a large number of Mat'46 units (and Mat'35/36/40 and 54) (Mat'46 used both BBC and MetVick pantographs, though my model, 281 (the only yellow one with MetVicks, 279, 295 and 299 all had BBC's) should have been equipped with a Metropolitan Vickers model , though I like the look of the BBC ones better, so in the end it's fine to me :)), while the version with advertisement stripes does have all the improvements, I like it somewhat less then the 'clean' version though (not to mention more remained in the clean livery, only gaining the new (current) NS logo in 1969~1972). So I might try and get my hands on that version when I feel like it.

 

Most of the models I would buy if they where available, have however never been made (and probably never will be):

 

-Mat'36 ELD3 401~429 (1941~1968) always loved Mat'36, and though I preferred the 4 car sets

-Mat'36 ELD4 601~637 (1941~1970) my favorite sub group within mat'36, also the longest surviving, with 2 of them (608 and 625) surviving until January of 1970.

-Mat'40 ELD5 801~831 (1942~1972) Another type I've always liked, shame not single car has been preserved.

-Mat'46 ELD4 641~705 (1948~1983) Did I mention Mat'46 is my favorite non-Japanese EMU? Don't know why, they where unfortunately all gone for a few years when I was born. Would love to own one of the 4 car sets in their final livery (642, as the longest serving (1948~January 1983) would be my choice, did I mention I'm a numbers guy? probably don't have to here :) ).

 

for the benefit of our non-Dutch members:

 

Mat'36: http://stortenbeker.eu/flat.asp?q1=ns_mat_36&f1=zoek+aangevinkte+termen

Mat'40: http://stortenbeker.eu/flat.asp?f1=maatschappij_type_serie&q1=ns_mat_40&o2=en&f2=alle%C2%A0velden&q2=&search=%C2%A0%C2%A0ZOEK

Mat'46: http://stortenbeker.eu/flat.asp?f1=maatschappij_type_serie&q1=ns_mat_46&o2=en&f2=alle%C2%A0velden&q2=&search=%C2%A0%C2%A0ZOEK

 

 

[ToniBabelony]

AFAIK, in N-gauge not many Dutch trains were released, but there are a lot of them available as 3D prints from Shapeways: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/SpoorObjecten?section=.3.+Trains+-+%281%3A160%29&s=0  Unfortunately the only 'bolneuzen' are diesels and not very cheap.

[SIG442]

I currently have just H0-scale trains, N-scale is too expansive and too tiny. Although in countries like Japan where you have smaller rooms usually it may come as a advantage. Still got a train collection and don't need as much space.

 

That 'Oer Sik' is indeed a nice one, wouldn't mind having one of those as well. For the Sik with crane that I own, I might be able to get one or more of those. I know a store that could order try to find them if he doesn't have them in the store. He did manage to get me one from manufacturer Roco. For those that wish to have a Sik in their collection, here some options:

 

- 200 class Sik "Raillion" (Red color) - http://www.roco.com/products/Roco/72729.aspx (H0-Scale)

- 200/300 class Sik (NS) - http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Roco-04153A-NS-Sik-Sikje-200-300-serie-OKT-/160544020564 (older Roco series, will be send world wide, seems to be a legal store owner)

- 200/300 class Sik (NS) - http://www.conrad.be/ce/nl/product/497496/Roco-Diesellocomotief-62958-H0-Roco-dieselloc-Sik-200300-van-de-NS/ (good online store, don't know if they will send world wide)

 

Other H0-scale Dutch trains:

 

- Series 1000 "NS" - http://www.roco.com/products/Roco/62675.aspx

- Series 1600 (1609) "Husa transportation" - http://www.roco.com/products/Roco/62679.aspx

- Electric Railcar "Blokkendoos" (Rough translates to "Blocks Box") - http://www.roco.com/products/Roco/63142.aspx

- Electric Railcar "Blokkendoos" (NS) - http://www.roco.com/products/Roco/63143.aspx

- Electric Railcar "Blokkendoos" (NS, with sound) - http://www.roco.com/products/Roco/63144.aspx

 

- Plan T (NS, green) - http://www.roco.com/products/Roco/63165.aspx

- Plan T (NS, with sound, green) - http://www.roco.com/products/Roco/63166.aspx

- Plan T (NS, with sound, yellow) - http://www.roco.com/products/Roco/63168.aspx

- Series 1100 - http://www.roco.com/products/Roco/63896.aspx

- Wagner BR 49 (sound) - http://www.roco.com/products/Roco/63297.aspx

 

- Series 363 "Raillion" (red) - http://www.roco.com/products/Roco/62972.aspx

- Series 363 "Raillion" (red, digital coupling) - http://www.roco.com/products/Roco/62973.aspx

- Diesel Locomotive S 204 "Raillion" (Red, sound) - http://www.roco.com/products/Roco/72842.aspx

- Diesel Powered Rail Car Train (1001-03, TEE, sound) - http://www.roco.com/products/Roco/69123.aspx

- Series 1100 "Botsneus" (Bumpnose) (1145, NS) - http://www.roco.com/products/Roco/68580.aspx

 

- Plan Y "Sprinter" "Strandballer" (beachball basically) - http://www.roco.com/products/Fleischmann/447102.aspx (Also in a AC version available)

- Series 1800 (NS) - http://www.conrad.be/ce/nl/product/1070591/TRIX-H0-T32399-H0-Trix-Express-elektrische-locomotief-serie-1800-van-de-NS-Gelijkstroom-DC-analoog?ref=list

- Series 1200 (NS) - http://www.conrad.be/ce/nl/product/1081418/TRIX-H0-T22127-H0-multifunctionele-locomotief-serie-1200-van-de-NS-Gelijkstroom-DC-digitaal-met-geluid?ref=list

- Series 186 (NS) - http://www.conrad.be/ce/nl/product/1311221/TRIX-H0-T22164-H0-Trix-elektrische-loc-serie-186-van-de-NS?ref=list

 

 

N-Scale Dutch Trains:

 

- Diesel Locomotive "Volker Rail" "Knabbel" (Knabbel = specific train name) - http://www.roco.com/products/Fleischmann/722010.aspx

- BR 156 "Railion" - http://www.conrad.be/ce/nl/product/1233357/Arnold-HN2168-N-elektrische-locomotief-BR-156-Railion-van-de-DB-AG?ref=list

- BR 189 "Husa group" - http://www.conrad.be/ce/nl/product/251595/MiniTrix-T16892-N-elektrische-locomotief-BR-189-van-de-Husa-Transportation-Group-HUSA?ref=list

- Series 1600 "Husa Group" - http://www.conrad.be/ce/nl/product/251594/MiniTrix-T16001-N-elektrische-locomotief-serie-1600-HUSA?ref=list

- Electric Loc "Locon AG" (German train, but it's a North EU group) - http://www.conrad.be/ce/nl/product/249993/MiniTrix-T16891-N-elektrische-locomotief-501-van-de-LOCON-AG?ref=list

 

I hope this list helps a little for those not within the Netherlands.

[ToniBabelony]

I currently have just H0-scale trains, N-scale is too expansive and too tiny.

When I see all the prices on the Conrad website, N-gauge seems much cheaper than H0 ;)

[kvp]

I think expansive is meant as there are too may different sets available, while the H0 range is more limited. So N scale is less expensive and more expansive.

[ToniBabelony]

I think expansive is meant as there are too may different sets available, while the H0 range is more limited. So N scale is less expensive and more expansive.

I'm no official English teacher, but I'm not sure you can even use the word 'expansive' in this context. Your explanation does also not really make sense in this regard.

[kvp]

Expansive

ex·pan·sive

(ĭk-spăn′sĭv)

adj.

1. Capable of expanding or tending to expand.

2. Broad in size or extent; comprehensive: expansive police powers.

3. Open and communicative; talkative or effusive: Wine made the guest expansive.

4. Grand in scale: an expansive lifestyle.

ex·pan′sive·ly adv.

ex·pan′sive·ness, ex′pan·siv′i·ty (ĕk′spăn-sĭv′ĭ-tē) n.

But the best way would be to ask SIG442...

[ToniBabelony]

Still makes no sense.

[velotrain]

I think expansive is meant as there are too may different sets available, while the H0 range is more limited# So N scale is less expensive and more expansive#

 

I think the O#P# meant to type expensive, as other comments suggest that there is a greater variety of Dutch trains available in HO than N scale - unlike Japanese prototypes#

 

Also - his original context suggests that he was providing a negative term, which expansive doesn't seem to be - in any of its usages#

 

 

I found yet another variety of goat#  I like how they provide a protected footplate for the shunting crew, and lots of grabs to hang onto#