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What did you order or the post deliver? (Japanese N Gauge)


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6 hours ago, disturbman said:

Love that consist. You should definitely do that 🙂

Looks like the first cab-car is a non renewaled car. The windows are the old style and there are still air intakes on the roof.


Yep, and actually from looking around it seems Tomix released this model very recently https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10796279 


Guess I would just have to change the couplers on the Greenmax models to the TN couplers.

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8 hours ago, disturbman said:

Looks like the first cab-car is a non renewaled car. The windows are the old style and there are still air intakes on the roof.


I'm afraid I'm going to have to pop some bubbles with my response again, for which I offer my apologies in advance, but those are most certainly renewed cars, just not to the same extend as the MoHa 112 and MoHa 113 type cars in the same formation.


Like with the 103 series, as I mentioned in my earlier reply, JR West had a number of life extension programs for their remaining 113 series, each of which varied in scope. The KuHa 111 type cars in that picture went through the N/NA life extension program, while the MoHa 112/113 type cars in that specific formation went through the 40N constitution improvement program. JR West instituted a number of different life extension programs for their remaining J.N.R. era equipment, which for the 113 series which ended up with the following programs:


-> NA

-> N

-> 40N

-> 30N


The contents of which are more or less similar to those on the 103 series, which I outlined in more detail here, but for completeness sake, and because I simply enjoy things like this, let's take a closer look at what those programs entailed for the 113 series.


The NA and N programs were intended for cars which had received special maintenance work during the J.N.R. era, which would include interior improvements as well as general life extension work. Similar to the N/NA/NB and N40 life extension programs for the 103 series, the cars which went through this program would see the addition of stainless steel protective covers over the cab windows, through door window and roll sign window. Similarly, the door pocket windows, as well as the door windows themselves would be fitted in black H-rubber. Unlike the 103 series though, the cars which had gone through the N or NA program would retain their door pocket windows. The N/NA programs would be completed between 1987 and 1998.


The 40N program would be of a much larger scope compared to the N and NA programs, and would go much further in actually modernizing the exterior and interior for the car affected. Like with the 103 series, the 40N program would see the cars being almost rebuild, with side panels being replaced and a general re-profiling of the carbody (rain gutters and car sides were integrated, creating a smoother (and in my opinion much worse looking), more modern appearance), new passenger windows, cab window having their center pillar removed, and both the cab windows and through door window being fitted in H-rubber as opposed to aluminium sash. The interior would be entirely redone, with the old box seats being replaced with individual seats similar to the 223 series. Though the 40N and 30N programs are what's known as constitution improvement programs in Japan, from a western point of view, referring to this program as a modernization program would perhaps be closer to the truth. The 40N program would be completed between 1998 and 2002.


And finally the 30N program, would be similar to the 40N program, though reduced in scope. As the work performed during the 40N program was quite expensive, the final cars scheduled to receive constitution improvement work, would go through a simplified version of the 40N program. Keeping their unit-sash passenger windows, as well as the original side profile, the 30N program would see the same interior improvements, cab, through door, door and door pocket window modifications as well as the removal of the roof mounted ventilators (same as the 40N cars). The 30N program would be completed between 2002 and 2004.



-> KuHa 111-1 at the Nagoya Railway museum. Yes I know it's a 111 series car, but the only difference between the 111 series and 113 series can be found in the motor cars, the MoHa 112/113 type cars (MT54 type traction motors as opposed to the MT46 type traction motors on the MoHa 110/111 type cars, different main controllers etc.), the trailer control cars are identical, in fact all 113 series KuHa type cars are still KuHa 111 type cars and are numbered consecutively. Note the difference in the cab windows, through door window and roll sign window compared to the mentioned picture. [author]



That being said, I suspect we may be using a different definition of the word renewal, and the way it could be applied to these cars, rather than the actual content of said renewal. The problem with the word renewal in this case, is that is used as a catch all term in Japan, covering everything between refreshed paint schemes all the way up to practical modernization programs and everything in between (Though for the sake of accuracy, the JR West programs are actually life extension programs (N/NA) and constitution improvement programs (40N/30N) as opposed to renewal), so the scope of what is considered a renewal can vary wildly between operators and even specific series. Add to this specific renewals, like for example equipment renewal, in which the main controller/(converter)inverter etc. is replaced while there may be no other changes to the train itself, and well, you get the picture. So please excuse me for this tangent.😅


2 hours ago, Arctic said:

Yep, and actually from looking around it seems Tomix released this model very recently https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10796279 


That would be the wrong sub-type, the Kyōto area 113 series formations you are referring to are actually composed of 5700, (5750) and 7700 sub-type cars which were noticeably different from the 0 sub-type cars mentioned above. Though 113 series 0 sub-type cars were most certainly used in the Keihanshin area (as indicated in the description of course), the Tomix model in your link represents an early 0 sub-type car based formation (large non shielded headlights, non-unitized passenger windows, glove type ventilators etc.) as used on the Tōkaidō/Sanyō main line during the J.N.R. era. These cars were some of the earliest 113 series cars to enter service, being built between 1964 and 1968, and the large majority of those would be scrapped between 1989 and the mid to late 1990's as additional 221 series and 223 series 1000 sub-type cars entered service.


The 5700 and 7700 sub-type cars are themselves modified (110km/h max operating speed) 700 sub-type and 2700 sub-type cars, built specifically for operations on the Kosei line. The 700 sub-type cars were based on the (1972 and up) 1000 sub-type cars, and were built between April 1974 and March 1976 and were intended for initial operations on the Kosei line, which opened on the July 20th, 1974. Because of it's proximity to the Sea of Japan and the natural cooling effect of lake Biwa, the area around Biwako can be classified as a cold area, and as such equipment running on the Kosei line has to be able to handle cold regions. As the 113 series was built specifically for warm regions, the 113 series 700 sub-type cars received a number of changes which set them apart from their 113 series 1000 sub-type sisters which were intended for the Sōbu Kaisoku line.


The 2700 sub-type cars were built in January and February 1980, and were based on the 113 series 2000 sub-type cars which had been introduced 2 years earlier, in 1978. These cars were intended for the newly electrified Kusatsu line, and would be operated in a common operation with the Kosei line. As such they included the same cold weather modifications as the 113 series 700 sub-type cars.


Differences for both sub-types include:


-> Semi automatic doors. This meant the doors could be opened and closed manually if desired, which allowed for unused doors to remain closed during winter, which meant heat was better retained inside the cars. This is why the 700 and 2700 sub-type cars, and thus the current 5700 and 7700 sub-type cars, have door handles similar to the 115 series. The 0/1000/2000 sub-types don't have these handles as all doors are opened and closed centrally at all times.

-> Snow plows. Self explanatory I guess, but unlike the warm region 113 series sub-types, both the 700 and 2700 sub-type cars, or more specifically the KuHa 111 type 700/2700 sub-type cars, are fitted with a bogie mounted snow plow.

-> Air horn valves (located between the headlights, on either side of the gangway connection). Like the 115 series, 117 series and J.N.R. limited express types, the air horn on the 700 and 2700 sub-type cars were protected by a hinged cover plate. when the horn is blown the air pressure opens the valve after which it automatically closes (I believe they are spring closed, but please don't quote me on this). The warm region 113 series cars used a simple, grated, cover for this purpose.

-> Pantograph. Currently they also spot a modified version of the standard PS16 type diamond pantograph as used by most of the J.N.R. new performance type cars, however, I wouldn't be surprised if this modification was actually performed by JR West after the J.N.R. split, probably during the construction work for the installation an additional pantograph in 1992.


As such they are actually quite similar to the 115 series in a number of ways, though they lack the additional, separate dynamic braking capabilities the 115 series has (specifically for mountainous lines), and were only fitted with combined dynamic/air braking (SEL-D) system as used for all other 113 series (as well as the primary braking system on the 115 series as well, separate control of the dynamic brakes was something specific to the 115 series though).


The ventilators are different from the (early) 113 series 0 sub-type cars, as @disturbman mentioned, however they were carried over from the 113 series 1000 sub-type cars they were based on. In fact the push-in type ventilators replaced the glove type ventilators on pretty much all Tōkai type suburban and ordinary express units in the late 1960's, and as such they are pretty much ubiquitous on the majority of the units which managed to survive into the Heisei period and beyond. As such the 113 series 1000 sub-type, 1500 sub-type, 2000 sub-type, and the late type 0 sub-type cars (1974~1977) all had the push-in type ventilators as well.


Returning to the topic at hand, starting 1992, Both the 700 and 2700 sub-type cars would be modified for a maximum operating speed of 110 km/h (from 100 km/h) as I mentioned before, with the modified cars being classified in the 5700 and 7700 sub-type category (+5000 added to the car numbers for all modified cars). This would form the basis for the final group of 113 series cars still active in the Keihanshin area.


And finally, to round things of, a number of MoHa 112 type cars were fitted with an additional pantograph in 1992. This was done in order to combat problems related to icing, though not all Kosei line cars would receive this modification, in fact the majority of surviving MoHa 112 type cars still spot the original single pantograph. For the formations containing these dual pantograph cars, this is also another recognizable difference compared to their "normal" 113 series sisters.




-> Formation C10 at Ōmi-Imazu station in October 2019. This formation is entirely composed of former 700 sub-type cars (KuHa 111-5716 and 5766 were built in 1976, while MoHa 112/113-5756 were built in 1974), and all cars have gone through the N/NA life extension program, as can be clearly seen by the stainless steel covers over the cab windows, through door window and the roll sign window. Note the snow plow behind the front skirt, as well as the valve type covers for the air horn. The ventilators were removed though, similar to the 40N and 30N cars. The second pantograph can also be seen, though in the folded position. [author] (and yes I did specifically take a local from Kyōto to Ōmi-Imazu and back (on the same train) to be able ride on a 113 series, which is probably one of the nerdiest things I've ever done in Japan, yet bouncing around in a 45 year old 113 series for more than 2 hours, while enjoying the glorious sound of their MT54 type traction motors making their hollow shaft parallel cardan  drive sing it's beautiful song was perhaps one of my most enjoyable train rides ever. Nerdy and a bit cringey? oh yes, don't care though as I got this experience out of it😁)



-> Close up of the same formation, or more specifically of KuHa 111-5756. Note the door handles, though they are unique, from a 113 series point of view, to the 700 and 2700 sub-types (as built), the presence of these handles is one of the quickest and easiest ways to distinguish a 115 series from a 113 series at first glance, doesn't work with these cars though... Also visible is the black H-rubber used to mount the door pocket window as well as the door windows, another recognizable part of the N/NA life extension program [author].



-> Modified PS16 type pantograph on MoHa 112-5756. The contact shoe is markedly different from the standard PS16 type pantograph. Note the unit-sash type passenger windows. [author].


13 hours ago, Arctic said:

However I was thinking of getting a 113 in shonan colour, since those were still operating in Kyoto area as late as 2016 according to some raillab pictures


I remember seeing formation C10, ironically the same formation I would be riding years later, while she still wore her Shōnan colors at Kyōto station in 2015, however I believe she was already the sole remaining 113 series formation sporting said livery at that point in time. Liveries aren't my strongest suit though, so take that for what it's worth.


As no one has ever released a model of the 5700 sub-type, or at least as far as I know, both the Shōnan color version and the frankentrain would be difficult to reproduce. MicroAce released a model of a J.N.R. era 700 sub-type formation more than a decade ago, however outside of the Greenmax 7700 sub-type cars, which you already own I don't think anyone has ever released any of the later JR West versions. Adding to this, the greenmax model represents a 30N formation, and you'd need 40N cars to model said formation accurately.


That being said, it of course does depend on how critical you are when it comes to details like these (them rivets won't count themself though), Kato also released a renewed model of the late type 113 series 0 sub-type cars in Shōnan colors about 3 years ago, which is excellent I might add, which could also be found in the Keihanshin area (Tōkaido/Sanyō main line). However the model itself represents a Shizuoka based 11 car formation + 4 car additional formation, so that doesn't really represent your chosen operating area. Your mileage may vary though.


3 hours ago, disturbman said:

Would be nice to know if the cab-cars are from the 300, 1000 or 2000 variant on your frankie train.


Those would be KuHa 111 type 5700 sub-type cars actually😉.  I suspect you're confusing the 113 series with the 115 series, the 113 series didn't have a 300 sub-type, though the 115 series did. Adding to this, if I'm not mistaken the 115 series 300 sub-type cars were specifically built for services in north-eastern Honshū (Tōhoku) with all cars transferred to JR East after the split, as such I don't think JR West ever owned or operated any 300 sub-type cars.


For the 113 series it would be: early 0 sub-type, 1000 sub-type, 700 sub-type, late 0 sub-type, 2000 sub-type, 1500 sub-type and 2700 sub-type (in chronological order).



Anyway, that should cover everything I guess? Wanting to keep it short and failing miserably, check! Adding way too much prototype related information in the modeling section, check! I think I should be good, I guess!

That being said, for some reason the only place were I post stuff like this is in unrelated areas of the forum, though perhaps that also says something about the state of the prototype section these days...

Anyway, I hope this is of help to people, and once again my apologies for any bubbles I inadvertently managed to pop, It's all done with the best intentions.😅



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^^ i Guess that applies as well to the 201 series of JR west?


Great Info BTW 😄

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12 hours ago, Englehart said:

^^ i Guess that applies as well to the 201 series of JR west?


Great Info BTW 😄


Yes and no, the JR West 201 series did most certainly receive life extension work, though the context wasn't entirely similar to the above mentioned series. As such, there are/were some key differences between the life extension work performed on 201 series and the different programs used on the (older) new-performance series at JR West.


The 201 series cars used in the Keihanshin area were originally built between 1983 and 1985 for use on the Tōkaidō/Sanyō main line (Kyōto and Kōbe lines), and as such were built at the tail end of the 201 series production run. A total of 32, 7-car formations were delivered between March 1983 and January 1985, for a total of 224 cars, all of which would be used exclusively on the Kyōto/Kōbe line. This was a relatively low number compared to the, already (relatively) low, number of 201 series cars produced, 1,018 cars. As such, the number of 201 series cars which were inherited by JR West was relatively low compared to some of their other J.N.R. era equipment.

At the same time, because they were quite new when the J.N.R. split occurred, the oldest cars were barely 4 years old at that point, none of the cars had received special maintenance work yet, and as the oldest and youngest cars were less than 2 years apart, there would be no large disparities between the type of life extension work they would receive.


The 201 series would be up for life extension work between 2003 and 2008, after between 20~25 years of service. All of them would go through the same constitution improvement program, namely the 30N program.


The interesting part of of the 30N program as applied to the 201 series, is that it's actually closer in scope to the 103 series, 113 series and 115 series 40N constitution improvement programs, rather than the similarly named 30N program for the aforementioned series. As with the mentioned 40N renewals, the car sides were integrated with the rain gutters, (wider) picture windows replaced the original drop-sash windows (though technically Japanese windows of this type should probably be called raise sash windows (the lower pane rises, rather than the upper pane descending on a drop-sash window), but what's in a name I guess) and the interior was brought as close to the 207 series as possible, including the seating moquette, floors through doors etc.


A part of the 201 series formations went through renewal while still in service on the Kyōto/Kōbe line, however the introduction of the 321 series between 2005 and 2007 would see them replaced in the same time frame. The cars were split between the Morinomiya and Nara branches, with the Morinomiya cars being reorganized into 8 car formations, while the Nara branch cars were reorganized into 6 car formations, the surplus SaHa 201 type cars being used to extend the Morinomiya based formations from 7 to 8 cars. All of the cars which hadn't received constitution improvement work, would be receiving said work before re-entering service, the last cars being completed in early 2008 as mentioned before, at which point all 201 series cars owned by JR West had completed the 30N constitution improvement program. The Morinomiya formations would be used on the Ōsaka Kanjōsen (Loop) to replace (and free up) some of the older remaining 103 series formations, while the Nara formations would be used on the Yamatojisen and Ōsaka-Higashisen while occasionally working on the Kanjōsen.


So as far as the JR West 201 series are concerned, the concept is similar, though the execution was slightly different from the earlier cars.

As for the other J.N.R. series at JR West, the 115 series follows in the same mould as the 113 series, while the 105 series is split between the new built 105 series cars and modified former 103 series 1000 sub-type cars. The former 103 series cars went through the N40 life extension program similar to the 103 series, while the new built cars received constitution improvement work similar to the 103/113/115 series 40N program or 201 series 30N program, improved interiors integrated rain gutters, new passenger windows, you get the picture by now😅. I believe JR West had similar programs for their J.N.R. era KiHa fleet, or at least part of them, though as I specialize in electric traction (EMUs) I couldn't really help you there, though our resident diesel connoisseurs might be able to provide more information on that front.


So I hope that answer your question.


12 hours ago, Englehart said:

Great Info BTW 😄


All in a days work!


7 hours ago, disturbman said:

Thanks, I was hoping you would jump in the conversation 🙂


You're welcome, I'm glad to hear. I don't think I jumped though, I dove😅.


On a serious note, I'm always happy to hear people enjoying the information I provide as much as I enjoy writing about Japanese trains 😉.

I always try to strike a balance between providing information, while at the same time trying to not over-correct anything written on this forum, as my teaching mode engages easily, and I don't want to come across as a know-it-all (because I don't, the more I learn the more I realize how much I still don't know. I believe this is true for all aspects in life, and as such for me continued education and personal development will always be my main motivators in life, which of course reflects on my interests as well) by obsessing over every little perceived inaccuracy, so I'm glad it is usually received well in this community.


Anyway, I love researching stuff, I love teaching/sharing said knowledge, I love writing and I Love (with a capital L) Japanese trains (and culture, and history and... well you get the picture), so I'm actually grateful to be able to share this with the good people of this community, so I guess this is a long winded way to say, thank you (all) for the support!


As for the second part, transmitting the bat signal usually works, just post something vague about a Shōwa era EMU (or before), doesn't matter whether it's related to the (former) J.N.R or (major) private railways, and my senses usually alert me to where I'm needed (encyclopedia man to the rescue!😅).




A shot addendum to my previous post; I realized after I hit reply, that I had forgotten to add the 115 series 300 sub-type cars built for Chūō line services to the lineup (my apologies to our squidly overlord), similarly a number of 115 series 300 sub-type cars were transferred to the Shimonoseki and Hiroshima wards during the late J.N.R. era, and those of course ended up at JR West after the J.N.R. split. I guess being a bit sleep deprived when writing the final section didn't help, mea culpa😅.

Edited by 200系
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Posted (edited)

It’s very interesting, I only eve knew about the 30N and 40N programs, but never really looked into them.


I think we should make a duplicate of your posts about JR West “renewal” programs in the prototype section. Maybe with some more visual examples.


edit: I can now pick out those elements that indicates the NA/N renewal programs on @Arctic picture.

Edited by disturbman
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arrived today from Hattons in the UK via DHL.  They had up to 30% off preowned stock. Usually don't bother as our exchange rate nearly doubles the pound price and their preowned can be quite expensive.  The 36 pounds shipping effectively added 12% to all the stock prices, so the Kato 10-150 resort 21 set ended up costing 57 pounds and runs beautifully. I have an early set in a white bookcase as well. The Tomix cleaning car was 22 odd pounds and stated as a non runner. was going to use it for spare parts for my other cleaning car, but the motor fired up straight away after I switched the lever on the roof to on position. also got 5 various american N scale locos, a couple of plug and play decoders and some lovely disconnect log wagons by micro-trains for very good prices. all locos require lubing with some emiting the telltale squeal noise. 




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@disturbman,I certainly wouldn't be opposed to something like that. However, in order to prevent further derailment of this thread (no pun control here), I think it would perhaps be best to discuss further details via pm.

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Been a while since I’ve posted, but Hobbysearch has been busy supplying me with tidbits to enjoy:




First up, a nice photo-reference book because ED75s, and four postal/general freight box wagons from Kato. The wagons arrived first and have yet to run - though I did put them on a bit of track with my EF66 (and forgot) to take a picture of them - while the book was a back-order. There’s some lovely detail photos in there, including a few colour ones too.




And here’s the latest arrival, the East Japan steam locomotive depot book. It was supposed to arrive Friday, but the request to leave in a safe place wasn’t received until after they’d tried to deliver... oops. It finally landed on Monday.


So far I haven’t had time to fully digest the book but what I have seen is fantastic: locomotive allocation lists, depot photos (and more than a few rolling stock ones), track plans... and did I mention the locomotive photos? It’s basically an ‘all-you-can-gorge’ D51 buffet, with a healthy side serving of 9600s, and enough other types - plus the odd DL and EL - to spice things up nicely. The Shinkansen Encyclopaedia, by the way, was purchased at a bookshop in Ueno Station in 2019.


Back in Zenmarket-land, I finally managed to snag the missing Tomix 7033 catalog I’d been searching for, but as of yet my favourite shop hasn’t listed any of the 7043 catalogs - yet. Still hopeful they will be listed, more train postcards are always welcome!

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First "unplanned" package of this month, ordered locally (DM-Toys), just assortment of connectors and stuff.


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Bob Martin

Just arrived from PlazaJapan today.  Really impressed with the speed of service and giving the customer the choice of shipper. First time ordering from them (as I’ve become disenchanted with Amazon Japan and ECMS).


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It's friday then... New stuff are incoming! 😁


Finally got the KIHA40-1700 `Douhoku Ryuhyo no Megumi` `Doutou Mori no Megumi` set, the Roundhouse ED76-551, a bus "Akan Bus Hokkaido" from the Tomytec series "The Bus Collection" and the Snow Miku 2013 kit Sapporo Transportation for small craft evenings


WhatsApp Image 2022-05-13 at 13.09.35.jpeg


Regards, Ulli

Edited by lighthouse
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Test run of my newly acquired 8 car Tomix 500 Nozomi from a friend on the forum. I added some extra coaches from another set I already have and no doubt the cars are not in the right sequence as well as being 13 car length. 


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8 hours ago, beakaboy said:

no doubt the cars are not in the right sequence as well as being 13 car length. 

OMG! Ban him! Burn him at the stake!



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Planned package 3/3 arrived today, yay to RG-R

Lots of stuff I was really looking foreward to, and some I couldnt resist on sale.

EDIT: Unplanned arrival today, several T-Track modules made in Poland by "Pikart".



Edited by Wolf
Didnt want to double post
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4 minutes ago, Wolf said:

Planned package 3/3 arrived today, yay to RG-R

Lots of stuff I was really looking foreward to, and some I couldnt resist on sale.



This is a big haul! Was it delivered by an actual JR Freight container??

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7 minutes ago, Arctic said:

This is a big haul! Was it delivered by an actual JR Freight container??

Sadly no, only by overpriced DHL Courier over the Weekend (Shipped Friday)

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On 5/16/2022 at 4:27 PM, Wolf said:

Planned package 3/3 arrived today, yay to RG-R


That is ONE BIG HAUL! Lovely buildings there, you'll love the detailing on those Kato buildings!!!


I got delivered a parcel, not too big, but quite a lovely one ~~




This certainly is exciting just looking at it from the exterior of the box!




The Manpuku has a REALLY interesing box sleeve!




Just 2 pre-order sets, but i must say both of which i quite highly anticipate




The Manpuku Go box is really unique ~ love that colour scheme 








How can i not fall in love with the livery!




I blame this set for my foot into Seibu... 






Erm... maybe not. such a beauty i guess it's forgiven!

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1 hour ago, JR 500系 said:

That is ONE BIG HAUL! Lovely buildings there, you'll love the detailing on those Kato buildings!!!


Yeah, the issue is now that I actually SEE them, I fear it would be a shame to not add interior ... 

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I was rather surprised when I tested the Leworm.


The train was running very quietly and smoothly. Performances were better than usual MA motors and definitely better than Tomix and GM motors. Yokohama Model review indicated that the Laview comes with a completely new motor and motor car architecture, https://www.orientalexpress.jp/a1030_001laview/. Quite a nice surprise.

I'm actually quite disappointed with the Tomix M-13s I have. The motor seemed geared for slow speed running and crawling, which is nice, but it quickly becomes noisy and at higher speeds the motor car wobbles intensively.

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