Which way to go?

[SantaFe1970]

I am on the verge of jumping into Japanese n-gauge railroading, but I'm dithering between three main plans:

 

Option one is to get a Kato master track set or two -- I'm leaning toward the double track sets -- and then set it up on the floor (or the dining room table) when the urge strikes. My very first model railroad ever was a Brio wooden train set -- now in the possession of my toddler nephew -- and I'm thinking that the Kato unitrack will be a durable and reliable way to experiment and play with trains, just like I did when I was six or seven.

 

But what trains to run? I will be visiting Japan for the first time this May, and would like to bring back a train or two as a souvenir. Normally my taste runs toward passenger trains, but I find recent Japanese electric locos handsome and I like the thought of a long run of flat cars (koki?) with containers. I'm not a collector by instinct, but there seem to be lots of different types of containers to mix and match... Again, fun.

 

Option two would be a small traction layout, really a diorama, perhaps sized for a shelf in my office. I am intrigued by the various Tomytec trams, with the available power units. I am hoping to ride both the Randen in Kyoto and the Enoden in Kamakura this May, and maybe I will be charmed enough by the experience to launch a layout.

 

Option three isn't a railroad at all, really. I am not a bus aficionado, but the Tomytec bus system is -- amazing. And a little moving bus scene would again be something really interesting (and fun) for the office shelf. The BRT set might be perfect...

 

Now, of course, which way to go is entirely subjective, but -- any thoughts?

[katoftw]

Option 1 seems the logical choice as the others have one big fault.

 

Option 2 is good option, but since you asked what to get/buy etc, then currently locking in a plan for a layout seems premature.  Option 3 again rides the same thinking as Option 2.

 

As for what trains to buy - only you can answer that.  Buy what you like, it might steer you into a direction you are currently uncommon with today.

 

Temp layout on the floor are good for beginners as it allows you to mix and match things, trial and error etc.  Once you have figured out what you like and dislike, you move onto a layout with things becoming more permanent.

Edited February 23, 2015 by katoftw

[spacecadet]

But what trains to run? I will be visiting Japan for the first time this May, and would like to bring back a train or two as a souvenir. Normally my taste runs toward passenger trains, but I find recent Japanese electric locos handsome and I like the thought of a long run of flat cars (koki?) with containers.

I haven't been to every part of Japan (and like the US, you may see more freight in different areas) but at least in the south and west of Japan, freight is a small part of railroading relative to what I'm used to seeing even in lesser freight areas of the US. There's obviously enough of it that you could make up a freight-based layout, but most of Japan's model railroading industry seems to be set up around passenger trains. Of course, if you end up just liking the freight trains there, then you should go with your gut.

 

If it's mainly the locos you're attracted to, you could model some of the loco-hauled passenger trains, though there aren't many of these left. You can also run a passenger layout and just have one or two freight trains for variety. I have all passenger trains except for my Tomix cleaning train, which takes the role of a working "freight" train on my layout.

[JR 500系]

Well, as katoftw has mentioned, it depends on which direction you would want to move with in this hobby. Model Railroad is almost a hobby for life as many speak, which I tend to agree as ever since started out I'm still learning a lot of stuff and thinking on how to improve my layout. With reference to your queries:

 

Option 1 - This option is best for trying out first to see how you like running model trains. I started with this option and decided on a permanent layout later on, having so much fun with the layout and running trains and sceneries and such I decided to build a permanent one. It's fun planning, but takes time building it. Also, having a permanent layout in your place tends to 'wow' visitors and never fails to amaze the audience, adults and kids alike ~

 

Option 2 - Much easier to build since it's much smaller, but it cannot handle larger trains. I don't have a tram layout so I cant advice you much on this, but it's fun building mini dioramas and modules and there are tons of trams/ road cars around to run so you would feel bored! Adding in the minor details like people and vehicles are really fun!

 

Option 3 - My initial intention, but after getting my first train I decided to go along with option 1, in-corporating this into it at the same time. Thing with Tomytec bus system is it's really fun, and it also wows visitors especially those that haven't seen Faller systems. They'll be wondering how on earth did a small bus like this move on its own! Along with newer and better systems that the bus system is moving towards like junctions, turnouts and even 'Y' sections, there are endless possibilities of running a bus layout on your train layout! Besides, the detailing on the Tomytec buses will definitely wow you over, it sure did for me! 

 

Lastly for running trains, it really depends on your interest. Most will try to focus on a region and run trains in that region, like Kyushu for example. You can then run Kyushu Shinkansens like N700-8000 or 800 series Tsubame, Kumamoto trams, along with Ltd. Express trains like the 883 series blue Sonic or 885 series Kamome, along with commuter trains like 813 series and ending off with a little detailing touch with Kyushu buses for the moving bus system. It will tend to look weird if you have a different region train like a Kiha-183 amongst Kyushu trains, but end of the day it's what interest and fancies you the most. It's your hobby so enjoy and have fun!  

[railsquid]

Lastly for running trains, it really depends on your interest. Most will try to focus on a region and run trains in that region, like Kyushu for example. You can then run Kyushu Shinkansens like N700-8000 or 800 series Tsubame, Kumamoto trams, along with Ltd. Express trains like the 883 series blue Sonic or 885 series Kamome, along with commuter trains like 813 series and ending off with a little detailing touch with Kyushu buses for the moving bus system. It will tend to look weird if you have a different region train like a Kiha-183 amongst Kyushu trains, but end of the day it's what interest and fancies you the most. It's your hobby so enjoy and have fun!  

 

I'd just like to emphasize that there's no "Model Railway Authenticity Police" who will come round to approve your choice and combination of trains, so "grabbing what takes your fancy" is an acceptable strategy.  It's what I do (OK, there's some slight method in my madness).

[katoftw]

I've decided not to get on the wrong side of the M.R.A.P. and buy 1 of everything.  That way it will keep them happy.  It is a slow process, and will continue to hurt my wallet.

[E6系]

Hello Mr SantaFe1970,

 

Please allow me to provide some advice on this matter.

 

First, I suggest you don't buy anything until you visit Japan.  Take the time to investigate the Tomix and Kato track systems first hand, as committing to either has its limitations.

 

Next, enjoy your holiday.  Ride trains.  Experience the shinkansen.  As you mentioned the Enoden, I highly recommend trying Odakyu from Shinjuku to Enoshima.  It is a private railways company.  They have a day pass and their ticket office staff will be very helpful.

 

While on the subject of Odakyu, I also highly recommend a trip to Hakone via Odakyu and Hakone Tozan Railway.  Use Google to see pics of this little private railway.  I always enjoy.  You can try Onsen, or take the cable car up the mountain and, if the weather is fine, enjoy an exceptional view of Mt Fuji.

 

If you can stretch your journey to Kyoto you will find some delightful private railways there also.

 

For me, as acting Chief Inspect of the Model Railway Authenticity Police, a quintessential part of any Japanese layout must be the relationship between JR and private railways companies.  :D ... just to be cheeky about it ... ;)

 

Finally, towards the end of your trip is probably the best time to commit to track and train.  Which, of course, is the start of something far more expensive than a straightforward holiday to Japan.

Edited February 23, 2015 by E6系

[Mudkip Orange]

I think you oughtta play with trains some and also see what catches your fancy once you start buying/collecting etc, so I'd go with #1.

[SantaFe1970]

Some very good perspectives here -- thanks for the ideas and advice.

 

Yes, I think I'm going to actually wait until I'm in Japan to choose specific trains. I already have some thoughts and prejudices, but am not sure if they will stand up. For example, I am very eager to ride a shinkansen, for the experience, but I don't think they are right for me, model-wise -- too clean-cut, too aeronautical and too airliner-like. But maybe I'll change my mind? 

 

(As a side note, I do think repainting a 0 series shinkansen in a Santa Fe warbonnet scheme as a fantasy project would be interesting, though probably heretical to some folks on both sides of the Pacific.) 

 

Right now, I am leaning toward embracing both Plan 1 and Plan 3 above. Kato unitrack + trains of my choice + a moving bus. Flexible and fun.

 

I am realizing that Plan 2 above taps into my long-slumbering interest in diorama and model-making. Once upon a time, I was all about the razor saw and the airbrush. But my older eyes and dormant skills would probably just make it frustrating... 

 

But I do think that I could handle scenery fine. Which brings up an ambitious thought for the future, if things really take off:

 

About a year ago I saw a Japanese hand scroll on display at the Indianapolis Museum of Art. It showed a landscape continuously progressing through all four seasons, from Spring to Summer to Fall to Winter. That might make for an interesting modular layout. Just scenery, no buildings. With the trains endlessly circling past light green to lush green to orange leaves to bare branches to first buds... I'm sure its been done before (what hasn't). Does anyone know for sure?

 

And, by the way, I am very much an outlaw per the dominant tendency of North American model railroaders: I have absolutely no interest in waybills or any other form of "realistic operation." There. I said it. Is that the Model Railroad Police knocking at my door?

[kvp]

Yes, the 4 seasons is a classic pizza layout. You can even make the layout turn under the train, so it looks like it's standing.

 

If you don't like waybills, the you will be happy to know most japanese trains nowdays are either passenger multiple units or unit trains.

 

Imho you should find something you like. A train, some scenery, anything and start from there.

[E6系]

Yes, the 4 seasons is a classic pizza layout. ...

 

Hello kvp,

 

I have seen a photo of such a layout, but cannot remember where.  It was approximately 2.4m x 1.2m.  It was divided from the corners at 45°, with a straight division along the long side.  Cleverly, spring and autumn were on the short sides and the argument was that the autumn leaves and spring flowers only look their best for a short time, while winter always feels too long and summer never long enough.

[FastFranz]

 

...  I'm leaning toward the double track sets -- and then set it up on the floor (or the dining room table) when ...

 

Ciao,

 

That was - getting a, used, Kato V11 track set - exactly what I did. Then - before coming here - every now and then I was used to lay tre tracks and allow trains to go.

 

Under these circumstances - at least for me - the plan has, always, been the ame: run what you like; so I had Shinkansen running "side by side" to an MD250 Super Cargo and even a (US rolling stock) a AC400 (BNSF) pulling some bethgon coal porter to finish with "vintage" Lima/Rivarossi (of which I'm a collector). So ... 

 

Then, if I was in your shoes, aiming at small (operating) diorama I'd go for a mix of a tram ad a bus line(s), in a fully urban (hence You can model almost everywhere along rails/street) environment.

 

Just my two cents addition ...

 

Francesco

[SantaFe1970]

Ciao, Francesco,

 

Thanks for your perspective. I agree that there's something liberating about sectional track set up on the floor -- I'm looking forward to that.

 

In another direction, as a Roman perhaps you are old enough to remember when there was a model train store in the Stazione Termine? This would have been back in the 1970s. I remember always making a point of checking out the window display when waiting for 1:1 scale trains. 

 

And Francesco, if you are in the Ivory Coast right now, what were the celebrations like when they won the African Cup of Nations?

Edited February 24, 2015 by SantaFe1970

[ozman2009]

"I have absolutely no interest in waybills or any other form of "realistic operation." There. I said it. Is that the Model Railroad Police knocking at my door?"

 

Good for you! There's a bit too much orthodoxy in this hobby. As KVP says, find what you like and go with that and Enjoy!

[SantaFe1970]

But, curiously, even though I have no interest in "realistic operation" (shunting or switching, running to timetable, etc.), I do (with exceptions) care about the physical accuracy of the model: length, livery, etc. In some ways I think my ideal model railroad is like an aquarium -- beautiful trains moving back and forth, but to no real purpose...

 

And, of course, I respect and appreciate those in the hobby who find real pleasure and satisfaction in perfectly executed solutions to a switching problem...

 

To each their own. 

 

The problem is when a silly consensus develops that "steam-diesel transition" or "Colorado narrow gauge" or this, that, or the other are considered "real" model railroading, and alternative visions are dismissed. Different is healthy, and interesting. Which is why I am finding a Japanese railroading/model railroading forum so entertaining.

[SantaFe1970]

And, speaking of "orthodoxy" (ozman2009's word choice above), I am kind of surprised nobody commented on my thought that a 0 series shinkansen would look nice in Santa Fe warbonnet colors. On a fantasy alternative 1970s USA layout? 

[FastFranz]

Thanks for your perspective. I agree that there's something liberating about sectional track set up on the floor -- I'm looking forward to that.

 

In another direction, as a Roman perhaps you are old enough to remember when there was a model train store in the Stazione Termine? This would have been back in the 1970s. I remember always making a point of checking out the window display when waiting for 1:1 scale trains. 

 

And Francesco, if you are in the Ivory Coast right now, what were the celebrations like when they won the African Cup of Nations?

 

Ciao,

 

Well, in the long run, a "real layout" - I think - will be a need, at least for me went this way ...

 

This being said:

 

Congrats!!! There, actually, were a model Train Store at Stazione Termini: I as used to spend hours in front of his windwos (but I think it was early than 1970). For the sake of curiosity: where are You from?

 

Ivory Coast wins for African Cup Natinos? Unbelievable musici, song, fireworks ... even ONE day of national Holiday ... everyone free to go at theairport waiting for the plane taking the team home ... LOL!!!

 

Francesco

[railsquid]

And, speaking of "orthodoxy" (ozman2009's word choice above), I am kind of surprised nobody commented on my thought that a 0 series shinkansen would look nice in Santa Fe warbonnet colors.

 

No idea what Santa Fe warbonnet colours are (I'm imagining some kind of stylized head-dress with feathers'n'stuff) but sounds cool.

[FastFranz]

And, speaking of "orthodoxy" (ozman2009's word choice above), I am kind of surprised nobody commented on my thought that a 0 series shinkansen would look nice in Santa Fe warbonnet colors. On a fantasy alternative 1970s USA layout? 

 

Well why not? I like American trains, my other layout - in Rome - is american (I di like UP trains/locos, the "Big Boy" above all).

 

Francesco

[Kabutoni]

And, speaking of "orthodoxy" (ozman2009's word choice above), I am kind of surprised nobody commented on my thought that a 0 series shinkansen would look nice in Santa Fe warbonnet colors. On a fantasy alternative 1970s USA layout? 

 

I don't think anyone really cares. Heck, I'm of the idea most even embrace the idea of creative freedom here. If orthodox, there are only a few around here who stick to such thoughts (maybe me with my limited early 1990s Keisei collection). And even if so, it's not worth much in terms of a ruling majority/minority. IMHO orthodoxy is ruining a lot -especially fun things- anyway in any sense. xD

[SantaFe1970]

I think the train store at Stazione Termini in Rome lasted at least until 1979-81 or so, because that was when I was living in Napoli (I am from the US; my father was in the US Navy, and was stationed in Naples). And I remember the store from earlier trips through Rome, maybe 1976? Maybe earlier? 

 

And I am very glad that there was suitable celebration in the Ivory Coast last week. (For a final Italian connection here, I was in Naples in the summer of 1982 when Italy won the World Cup. Best party of my life. Still.)

 

As far as a Santa Fe warbonnet scheme goes, its the iconic red, yellow, black and stainless steel nose of an ATSFE passenger diesel loco. I'd post a link if I knew how... Anyways, Google will show you.

[ozman2009]

And, speaking of "orthodoxy" (ozman2009's word choice above), I am kind of surprised nobody commented on my thought that a 0 series shinkansen would look nice in Santa Fe warbonnet colors. On a fantasy alternative 1970s USA layout? 

 

Not many people knew about the experiment that the ATSF carried out in the "Warbonnet" era with an 0 Series Shinkansen that they borrowed from the JNR. Those who rode on the borrowed train loved it, especially the colour scheme that the train was painted, but the experiment failed for technical reasons.

 

If you think outside the square you can make up a backstory to justify anything and everything.

[katoftw]

The Burlington Northern 100 series with green and white stripes on the front was in my opinion much better than the 0 series SantaFe warbonnet.

[railsquid]

If you think outside the square you can make up a backstory to justify anything and everything.

 

FWIW the backstory for my nascent layout is that of a struggling inaka private line (of the kind which runs trains which other struggling inaka lines threw away) which hit on the idea of setting itself up as an international railway museum as a tourist attraction, hosting an eclectic variety of European stock (mainly British and German). This has been a wildly successful venture, revitialising the local economy and the local line now has extensive through-workings with JR. The nearby urban area has also expanded recently, creating demand for through-working with the metro/tram system there.

 

This presupposes a fork in the historical timeline of Japan, in which all lines use standard gauge and the same system of electrification, and which also allows through-working of some Shinkansen services to non-Shinkansen lines.

Edited February 25, 2015 by railsquid

[Mudkip Orange]

This presupposes a fork in the historical timeline of Japan, in which all lines use standard gauge and the same system of electrification, and which also allows through-working of some Shinkansen services to non-Shinkansen lines.

 

You're also presupposing that the entirety of Japan switched to Bern gauge at some point, unless you just run UK trains.