FastFranz Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Ciao, Is there any mean to prevent this little critter form suffering on even the smallest flaw encountered on the rails? IMO is't - basically - too fast for its actual weight:is adding weight (where? the interior seems rather crammed) a manageable solution? Eventually I apologize it the topic has been already discussed. THX Francesco PS: I refer (image from Kato USA website) to this one: Edited February 13, 2015 by FastFranz Link to comment
katoftw Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Adding wieght to is help the issue. It is a poor runner out of the box. Link to comment
FastFranz Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Ciao THX, to begin with! Any idea where to put it? Francesco Link to comment
cteno4 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Francesco, Check with pauljag700, he recently weighted his down and there was a little discussion about how to add the weight here http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/8613-going-japanese/?p=106650 Just want the weight to be evenly applied over the wheels and as low as you can get it as a Lowe center of gravity will help with any wobble with track joints and such with it having only 4 wheels for pickup. In tight spaces folks have used lead shot to pack it in tightly. You can use thin plastic wrap to make a form and the add shot on top and the full with white glue to fix the shot to the formed shape. Then remove plastic and if fear of electrical contact insulate with tape or paint. Cheers Jeff Link to comment
FastFranz Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) Ciao, Having opened the tram first thing I noticed is there's NOT that much room inside! IMO there are two places to fix a, possibly balanced, extra weight (see image) but, beyond the fact their ugly and will be aalways in sight: Weight at both ends will force me to remove the tram "driver", Weight in the middle could result (in not properly insulated) in electric problems (short circuit). Any suggestion? THX! Francesco Edited February 15, 2015 by FastFranz Link to comment
cteno4 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) Francesco, Yep not a lot of space but every little bit will help. I would go for the ends and fill up to the bottom of the windows, then if you cover the motor with a cowling of black paper you can glue some cut off figures and a driver onto the top of the chasis next to the windows. Just catching site of a few figures and the res it the interior non descript will help the mind's eye to just fill the car with people and forget the rest! Also see how much you might pack into the roof down to the top of the windows. This is where gluing the lead shot might work well. You can also carve lead pretty easily or route it with a rototool. Just use plastic gloves and clean up the tailings, you won't absorb much lead doing this unless you start sucking in the part or eating the scraps! You can also find thin bars of lead at floral shops (not anymore in the us, but maybe there) that were used to wrap flower arrangements and weigh them down. They are very bendable and easy to cut and form. Jeff Edited February 15, 2015 by cteno4 Link to comment
FastFranz Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 Ciao, I think I'll go with lead shot and will have anything "removable" so, just in case, should be the wrong decision ... and will check, also, if a really small bolt will fit (front & back) in. ;) Francesco Link to comment
cteno4 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Lead is the best as it's about the densist you can easily go. Nice thing is it's so soft to work with. Can even cut up little bits and Frankenstein a shape with some glue so it's removable. If there is a good depression in the roof you can line it with thin plastic wrap and fill with shot and glue and have it pop out then if needed. Harder to do this trick on the ends but could try it lining the ends with some little pockets. Then fill with shot and glue and the just file the outside down to fit w.in the shell. Have a friend there with shotguns that reloads? Maybe a local gun shop would give you a handful of shot to play with being amused by your use! When I was a kid I weighted all my cheapo us freight cars with lead shot like this with glue. I could tune them easily if needed. Cheers, Jeff Link to comment
FastFranz Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 Maybe a local gun shop ... Ciao, Here the war (the REAL one, neither wargame nor soft air) ended a couple of year ago: forget about it!!! I think lead is the easiest, and possibly the only, way to go! I'll keep You all tuned asap ... Francesco Link to comment
kvp Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 One thing about lead is that attaching it with pva (carpenter's) glue would result in oxidation and lead rust is much larger and can break the pastic model it is attached to apart. Imho you should just make a flat weight and attach it on top of the motor with some foam backed double sided tape. The tape provides isolation and holds the weight in place. If it's visible through the window, then you can paint the whole assembly black. Other alternatives for lead are iron, copper and white metal. Link to comment
cteno4 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) Kvp, Ive had some cars for over 30 years with lead shot and pva an never had oxidation that I saw, only thin I ever noticed on those old cars was just yellowing of the pva, but that's to be expected from pva like that. The shot may have been coated with something. Also possible to use something like plastics/household cement. Just need to make sure it does not eat any plastic wrap that's used. Yes best would just be to carve up your own. Jeff Edited February 15, 2015 by cteno4 Link to comment
cteno4 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Kvp, You are correct, on looking around I found that pva can cause oxidation on lead. I'm guessing the lead shot I used was coated with something that prevented it from happening. I got the whole idea I think from a model railroader magazine. Iron bb or buck shot should do fine with pva, but then don't have as good of density. Jeff Link to comment
ozman2009 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 As well as lead shot or sinkers, there's also lead tape. It's used by golfers and tennis players to add extra weight to their clubs/rackets. Link to comment
marknewton Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 As Jeff and kvp have both noted, DON'T use PVA glue with lead of any sort. A mate of mine had a number of his very expensive brass locos more or less destroyed by the oxidisation of their lead weights. Another mate of ours who is an industrial chemist explained why, it's long and involved and I don't claim to fully understand the process, but his advice was not to use it. All the best, Mark. Link to comment
FastFranz Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Ciao, OK boys got the message!! I think I'll go with - once found it - whit those "thin bars of lead at floral shops" "that., I think, Jeff har mentioned. I will use to bit of electric insulating tape (to prevent short circuits). THX!!! Francesco Link to comment
cteno4 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Francesco, As mark noted you might have better luck with the lead tape at a sporting goods store. They use it to wrap under the handles to balance them. I think the floral tape is no longer sold here in the states but I know the tennis racket tape is. From some reading it looks like either caulk or epoxy are the best solutions. Jeff Link to comment
FastFranz Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Ciao, Gave it a try! "Bare" frame with a weight - size that should enter the bodywork. To say the truth I haven't seen that much of difference! Puzzled ... :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: . Francesco Link to comment
cteno4 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Francesco, Yeah before getting into it just taping some nuts to each end to see if some weight does fix your problems, is wise! Also go at any track junctions with a file where it shows an issue. Sometimes squeezing the metal part of a Unijoiner with a pair of small pliers can also help the track junctions stay a but more in alignment. Also depending on how you stuck your track down,mc heck that one section is not mounted a tad higher than another. You can help this vertical alignment sometimes by putting tiny screws in the center of the track at the end of sections to adjust the height with them. We have done this on some of out club sectional layout modules as the module joints can sometimes flex a bit or the module warps a slight bit and a few internal track pieces pop up a bit. If you see this is an issue yell and I can pop a couple dozen great screws for this in an envelope to you and it should go first class cheap. #4 kato points are notorious for causing issues where the point blade meets the track. There is a fix by cutting a little pocket in the rail where the blade goes up against it with a rototool and a grinding bit. It's tricky work, but those that have done it swear by it. Also think about adding diode pairs to the motor. These will sop up some of the voltage and thus make it run slower at more normal throttle settings. Also check that the wheels are at the correct gauge spacing as some times one wheel set will be out + or - and cause issues with 2 axle cars like this. Sorry if you are aware of all of these, but just thought I would throw them out there. Jeff Link to comment
kvp Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Puzzled... Check that your track is clean and the rails have a good power supply. If this is true, then the only thing that will help you further is using a PWM controller that will allow slow speed running or maybe adding some capacitors to the motor as an electronic flywheel. They can double up as extra weight too. The problem with rigid 2 axle units is that usually only 3 wheels are completly down, so one rail is contacted only on a very small surface. If the unit doesn't have a large flywheel, then it's very easy to stop on a section where this single contact point encounters some dirt or an isolator in a turnout. Capacitor based electronic flywheels can help getting over these small spots. Adding more weight help getting good contact by pushing the unit down onto the track and using a PWM controller also helps bridge the small higher resistence parts on the track and gives a higher torque to the motor when going slow. Link to comment
cteno4 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Yes the 3 wheeling is why track vertical alignment is critical on 2 axle units! Probably enough room in there to put some tantalum SMD brick caps in the ends and not be seen. Francesco if you decide to go this route yell as I could trains ship you some in a simple first class envelope to avoid it disappearing for a long time... Kvp how may uF would work in this case? Something like 8x 100uF? Jeff Link to comment
FastFranz Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Ciao Here in "wild Africa" things are different all electronic gizmos are almost unknown (at least in THIS parto fo Africa) so most of your precious suggestion will remain on paper, furthermore between me and electronic runs the same relationship ther is between a nun and the devil itself!!! Mi track are fixed - to "table" by mean of small snails and at touch surface - at rail's junction - shows no detectable problems (different heights, disallignment or alike) my other trains (i.e.: Sunrise express, MD 250 supercargo, Doctor Yellow) run, and run and run and run ,,, May be, then, it's a problem of electric caption (as a matter of fact on my "micro-layout" made with Tomix "tram-rail" the going is better, and that oval is kept in a box while the same is not possible, of course, with the large layout)? Francesco Link to comment
cteno4 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Francesco, Didn't you paint the rails of the big layout? Wondering if there are some bits of paint still on the rail head or just over onto the inside top edge where the flange corner might touch. Again with only 4 wheel pickup that could cause sputtering. Are you seeing sputtering, stops, jumps or what? You might take a small block of wood and rub it hard on the tops of your rails and some on the top inside corner of the rails to clean off any paint there. Wood is good as it can usually scrape off things like paint but not horribly scratch the metal, which can be the places where dirt and oil will can stick to the track better and buildup. Also inspect the trams wheels and pickups for dirt as again with only 4 wheel pickup any muck in there will intensify spotty running. The bigger trains have 6-8 wheel pickup (all wheel pickup in cases like the newer tomix shinkansens) and a lot more, weight and momentum and many times flywheels so they can barrel through small issues or the other truck takes over. Smaller radius track might also work better on the small 4 wheel meds as it would push the flanges some more on the curves and maybe give a little better contact. Plus if track is not painted no issues of paint interference. Yell if you need some small bits like this as many times they can go for a buck or two in an envelope first class as something personal and hopefully avoid months in delays! Cheers Jeff Edited February 18, 2015 by cteno4 Link to comment
FastFranz Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 Ciao, Haven't painted the rails (just "washed" them with a mix which was 90% water and 10% of black acrilic pain to diminish a bit the glittering of new Kato rails): after having allowed them to dry I brushed every thing with a pencil rubber, removed debrises and try to - further - clean th "contact area" between two contiguous rails. Probably - as sI said here pollution and dirt here, regrettably, are ... ... ... TOP CLASS!!! - cleaning also ot the wheels - beyond rails - could help; i'll try! Eventually (and for the sake of my curioisity) that tram has NO flywheels (at least it seems so, looking at the engine): correct? Francesco PS: THX all I'll return on the matter if something better sorts out! Link to comment
railsquid Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 track are fixed - to "table" by mean of small snails How do you get the snails to stay still? ;) 1 Link to comment
FastFranz Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) Ciao They, of course, DON'T stay still: that's way my Kato tram is facing troubles with rails ... ... ... LLLOOOLLL!!! Francesco Edited February 18, 2015 by FastFranz Link to comment
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