Separation between ground and viaduct tracks

[wonton]

I was thinking just to remove the 2 bars of both opposite sides, not all the 6 bars, do you think it could be still unstable?

[macdon]

I've modified a few of those in my previous layout.........

 

 

They seem stable enough to carry the heavy kato double track viaduct with an 8-car shinkansen rolling above it.

 

Yes, a train will pass thru under it ................. the bad thing is, you gotta fold down your train's pantograph.

 

 

 

If you'll be using kato viaducts and piers - Ken's site is a good read:

 

http://sumidacrossing.org/ModelTrains/TrackandRoadbed/KatoUnitrack/KatoViaductsandTrack/

 

 

Mardon

Edited September 15, 2014 by macdon

[wonton]

Perfect! Thank you very much for the answers. And regarding to the Ken's site, I knew it, it's one of my favourites webs :-)

[wonton]

Sorry for post again, but I forgot almost everything about modeling (I'm enjoying this hobbie after more than 20 years!) and I don't have materials to test, so I have to ask you ;-).

 

The track design is very difficult for me, with such a small space I don't have too many chances and I'm not sure if my curve radius are good or not.

Finally I would have two separate levels (attached).

 

High level:

This will be only for the shinkansen.

Since the curves are 348mm 45º I guess is good enough for a shinkansen.

I will use the Kato viaduct station and I will make modifications to some of their piers.

 

Ground level:

This will be only for the Yamanote line and the Narita Express.

The gray tracks will be hidden under the Kato station extension segments, under the viaduct or under a hill.

The external brown curve have 3 x 315mm 45º and 1 x 282mm 45º.

The internal orange curve have 2 x 282mm 45º, 1 x 249mm 45º and 1 x 216mm 45º.

The internal green curve have 4 x 216mm 45º.

The external red curve have 2 x 348mm 45º and 2 x 216mm 45º.

 

Finally I would like to have a hill that would cover both the viaduct and the ground track of the botton-left corner. I don't like the curve of the ground level and I'd like to hide it. And besides this I would like to have a temple or a garden in a hill.

 

So my questions are:

 

- Are the curve radius good enough for the trains?

- Taking into account that the viaduct has a height of 5cm and will have a tunnel, is it possible to have a hill covering it or the hill would be very unrealistic?

 

Thank you very much again for your answers.

 

[macdon]

Photoshop'ed .........

 

[kvp]

Seems ok, but you might only be able to run Tomix/Tomytec trains on the ground level, because most Kato and Microace trains need at least an R280 to work. Close coupling might also be a problem, but bogie mounted rapido coupled trains are ok. You might want to check platform clearences on the left, since it looks a bit tight.

[wonton]

For the ground level I was thinking on buy these trains:

 

Yamanote line 3 cars set http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10036260 and Narita Express 3 cars set http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10138985. Could they be ok with their couplings and these curves?

 

Regarding to the platform clearances I think is a problem of my draw because I've been very careful to have the track distance recommended with kato platforms.

 

Anyway I keep thinking that my best option is negotiate more space and have a 200x100 layout, but it's very difficult ;-).

 

Thank you very much again!

[kvp]

 

Could they be ok with their couplings and these curves?

Yes, they should be ok. I have the e231 and it can also (barely) go through the Kato R150 curves, so the R216-s should be ok. Afaik the narita express has the same mechanics and couplings, so that should be ok too. With these trains, i think you are good to go.

 

My only problem with your platfoms is that the right platform was designed for a switch, where the trains don't overhang too much. Also there is a bit of an overhang to the outside on the inner curve, so you might want to move the whole platform a bit towards the right, so it's left end is in line with the end of the straight section on the inner loop. That would mean adding 1 bit of straight to both tracks, removing the same amount from before the tunnel enterance and moving that to the upper part of the inner loop. (essentially moving the bottom station a bit right) Of course cutting down from the platforms in case the trains hit it is also an option.

 

The top level seems generally ok, but you should also check the overhang on the diverging side of the platform, since shinkansen cars are longer and thicker, so they need a bit more space than normal commuter cars. Moving the platforms a bit to the right (only if needed) is also an option here, so there are no big problems. The 3rd track seems too short to hold a shinkansen, so i'm assuming it's for a standard gauge maintenance car or something similar.

[wonton]

Hi kvp!

 

Thanks for the advises, I'll take them into account.

 

Regarding to the high level station, I don't like my 3rd track too, yes, is too short for a shinkansen, but if I remove it there will be a big wasted space in the station, what could I put in those 3 viaduct station segments if I don't put tracks over them?

[kvp]

The two trivial ideas would be to either make the 3rd track longer or to make it straight and longer. Personally, i would even make the 2nd track a bit longer, by adding a custom viaduct piece under there too. This way you can have 2 longer viaduct platforms.

 

ps: Looking at the hacking required, i would just get rid of the Kato piers and prop up the whole station on a piece of custom cut wooden board and a few custom cut 5 cm high square wooden columns. Needs a bit of glue, but it's easy to build and then you won't have problems with the pantographs getting caught in the piers, since there won't be anything below the baseboard. Also lets you place the colums anywhere you like and if painted concrete, it looks more prototypical too. Anything above the baseboard could be the same stock Kato stuff you would use with the kato baseboards.

[wonton]

Very good idea! Although I'm not very good with diy, I'll take a look at your idea.

 

Thanks again!

[locidm]

wonton, you seem to be having fun designing tracks! I am new as well and have a layout table about the same size as yours (2,000 mm x 1,100 mm). What program are you using to design the tracks? My current track plan is a modified version of one of Kato's unitrack plan linked below:

 

http://www.katomodels.com/unitrackplan/plan_p3.shtml

 

Since I am making changes to it I am thinking it may be best to use a program as well to make sure I have things squared away. I have heard of a few programs out there but not sure which one is most user friendly for beginners and Kato unitrack users. I have a Mac at home.

[wonton]

Hi locidm!

 

I hav a Mac too and I'm using the unique track designer for Mac (as far as I know), its name is Rail modeller (http://www.railmodeller.com/).

It has a trial version with all its features except Save and Print. You can test it very well and then buy it for 39$.

 

Despite it's the only option for Mac it's a very good program.

 

Kind regards!

[locidm]

Nice! Thank you. It seems they have it on sale now with 10% off for $35 too. I'll look into it tonight when I'm back in front of my computer.

[katoftw]

tracks under viaduct station will probably make contact with the supports.

 

also the ground level statio, the curved inside track might not work due to the overhang a carriage has in front of a trucksd/bogies.  especially if smaller radi than R249.

[macdon]

A bit of diy will surely help in your case ......... and at times saves you money too which you can use in others.

 

If you want to envision what your layout would look before doing diy or buying, cut your viaduct station profile out of stiff corrugated cardboard. Use 2" foam for piers. Setup your tracks to check the best possible pier placement and from there you would know if you need to do custom/diy piers or if the branded piers will suffice.

 

If you still decide to buy, Tomix piers and crossbeams might be a good solution for your viaduct station.....

 

 

I dont have them and have never used them yet, so I cant give feedback. But from the diagram, its a possible solution.

 

Mardon

 

 

[wonton]

Thanks! I'm sure I will have to do some "diy" and your ideas are very good, I will take them into account.

Edited September 18, 2014 by wonton