Power loss due to added tracks?

[Sascha]

I was wondering if I would need another Kato Powerpack when I get more tracks due to power loss? What I mean by that is, that if I add more tracks, wouldn't that affect the power from the Powerpack, making the trains slower?

[Martijn Meerts]

You won't need another power pack, but you might have to add additional power wires depending on the size of the layout.

[inobu]

Sascha,

 

If you understand the principles you can avoid problems. Supplying power is like supplying water.

Water pressure relates to voltage

Water flow relates to current

Water hose relates to the wire

 

We will use the example of washing your car. The amount of water needed to spray the dirt off you car is equivalent to the amount of voltage required to make your train run. 

 

 

So, you connect the water hose to your spigot and wash your car in the drive way. No problem. The amount of water flowing through this hose is adequate hence the amount of water hitting the surface of the car removes the dirt. 

 

Let say your car is parked on the street. Because the car is further away from the spigot you will have to increase the water flow in order to maintain the same amount of water to spray the car. The same applied to powering your layout. The bigger the layout the further the train will travel away from the power supply/spigot. This shows the cause and effect.

 

In this example we will use a lawn water sprinkler.

 

The water pressure in you house is fixed. The amount of water that can flow is fixed. You cannot water the whole lawn at one time as the water consumption

will exceed the amount of water supplied. This is why the lawn sprinkler system is broken down onto zones. Each zone is designed to consume less than the

total amount of water supplied.

 

The supply remains the same but the consumption rate is controlled by the zones. This concept will apply to your layout.

 

The power supply can support the layout based on how you wire it. Have the layout wired in zones and the train will draw power based on what zone it is traveling in.

 

This is a long version of what Martijn said.

 

Inobu

Edited September 4, 2014 by inobu

[inobu]

I should really proof read my post. 

[Sascha]

Hahahaha. Thanks for the insight about washing my car Inobu. I did understand what you are saying. Thanks.

[HantuBlauLOL]

Adding another power wire from the same controller, same polarity to the 'no electricity' section might help.

[Sascha]

Thanks for the tip HantuBlauLOL.

 

[HantuBlauLOL]

You're welcome :)

[katoftw]

I find that once you are about 2 meters away from a power feed, you have loss of voltage.  So adding a power feed every 4 meters will help prevent this.

[E6系]

Hello Mr Sascha,

 

Here is my advice on wiring a layout:

 

Track does not conduct electricity as well as copper wire.  This means that over 1m of track there is a greater potential drop (loss  of voltage) than across a copper wire of the same cross-sectional area.  The cross-sectional area of the wire is critical.  You should also consider that, unless you solder your track together, the current is often only flowing across the track joiners, which have a much smaller cross-sectional area than the track itself.

 

The aim wiring a layout with multiple feeds is to deliver a conductor to any given point on the layout that is better than the track itself.

 

For optimal performance, track feeds ever 2m - 3m should suffice.  At this spacing there is little value in soldering the track joints.  I suggest AWG16 gauge wire to the underside of your base boards.  It is best to use a smaller gauge wire, like AWG26 for the last 10cm or so to come up through the base board and solder to the track.  The potential drop over such a short length of wire is not a  problem.

 

My trunk wiring for DCC is AWG14.  This is because the wiring is also carrying the DCC signal which, of course, also diminishes over distance.

 

Wire in a star pattern from your controller is best, in my opinion, but this can depend on your layout.  It would not be appropriate for a long, narrow layout, for example.

[Sascha]

That's a lot of info E6系 and it really helps. I'm glad I joined this group. I decided that I will first learn the basics about all this( installing lights, wiring,precision stops,DCC,...) and than go for my layout. So first I get more tracks, and two more trains and than go from there.

Thanks a bunch guys!!!

[locidm]

How does one create multiple wires to connect to multiple feeders from the same controller? Kato has a three way extension cord adapter, can that be used for that purpose? If so one is still limited to three feeders per controller unless you daisy chain them which does not seem like the way to go. Can anyone share pictures of how their power routing is done? Thanks a bunch for all the great insight as it is helping me out as well.

[katoftw]

depends on your power supply.

 

the 3 way things are good for beginnners due to the simplistic nature of them.

 

once you go more advance and/or dcc control, a distribution block is the way to go.

 

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=model+train+power+distribution+block&hl=en-AU&gbv=2&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=IcsLVIyoJdPluQSH9YHgCA&ved=0CAUQ_AU

[E6系]

How does one create multiple wires to connect to multiple feeders from the same controller? Kato has a three way extension cord adapter, can that be used for that purpose? If so one is still limited to three feeders per controller unless you daisy chain them which does not seem like the way to go. Can anyone share pictures of how their power routing is done? Thanks a bunch for all the great insight as it is helping me out as well.

 

Hello Mr locidm,

 

The aim of adding more feeders is to improve and even-out the current around the track.  If you layout is large enough to require multiple feeders then I believe it is best to abandon the feeders supplied by Kato and Tomix, because the wire gauge is too small.  It is better to do as I suggested earlier and use a decent wire gauge such as AWG16 or AWG14. 

 

I create multiple feeds by using a bus bar ... similar to this: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/busbar-bus-bar-marine-X-10-/160567181573?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item25628cc105  It has a screw on the end for the source and a row of 4, 6, or 10 holes that feeders can be connected to.

 

To connect to the small AWG26 feeders under the track I use terminal blocks like these: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5-x-Clear-Covered-2-Rows-8-Position-Screw-Terminal-Barrier-Strip-Block-600V-15A-/301217526348?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item4621f6b24c

 

I solder the short AWG26 to the outside of the track joiners.

 

There is no point in using the Tomix and Kato feeders as solder provides a superior conductor to the dry contact ... which is, after all, the whole point of the exercise.

[locidm]

Thank you Katoftw and E6 for the informative advice! Given my layout is going to be on the small side, I think I'll start with using the Kato 3-way adapter first to see how it performs. When (and if the wife allows) a bigger permanent layout happens, E6's suggestions doesn't sound too hard to do. The 3-way adapter is much easier for me since my current layout isn't going to be permanent.