Motorwomen

[Guest ___]

Mitch Sako posted this in a public forum, over on the JTrains mailing list. I don't think Mitch has any objections to me posting this, but some troll got on there, and what should have been a great thread went to hell in a hand basket.

 

"I was on the Keihin-Tohoku Line yesterday and I took some shots from the front of the train...Let me know your thoughts.  I found her to be strangely charming even though I have no idea what she looks like.  I guess it's the uniform including the hat...". http://www.sotobori.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=932

 

I thought this was a fantastic topic that Mitch brought up\ as I got to briefly talk to a female motorman last year briefly. From what I gathered from her, it is extremely rare for women to work their way into these ranks. At best they can make their way into conductor. (End of train motorman)

 

It was strange, but I saw quite a few (female operation crew members) last April on the KT line, as well as the Yamanote and Chou Lines, though every single one of them was wearing a mask which was lousy luck. Most were end of train conductors.

 

The one woman who was not, was a motorwoman, I got to talk with briefly at Omiya. Her English was good enough that we could communicate for a few minutes. I think she was more interested by the fact that she had never seen a a foreigner who was interested in the Japanese rail system.

 

I think I have a picture of her somewhere on the hard drive, though I recall her complexion was a bit rough, and I sorta botched the exposure so I guess the harem anime fans might not be as so impressed with the picture.

[Bernard]

This is an interesting topic. There are some professions that are male dominated and I always ask myself, "I wonder why." On the LIRR about 20 years ago you never saw a female conductor, today it is a commom site and there are now female engineers.

 

Looking at the photos, I'm not surprised to see her wearing a mask, that was a common site in public when I was in Japan.

 

There are some professions that are still male dominated. In the film industry, I've  worked with female editors, directors, producers, narrators, and writers but I've only come across 2 female camera operators and 1 re-recording studio mixer.

 

It's a shame that his original thread went down the tubes, lets hope there is some interesting posts here.

[Guest ___]

My experience has been in the industry that women are a pretty rough crowd to work with from my time at Walkersville and Pioneer. I haven't seen any with MARC, but Amtrak has a lot of women working as conductors. I can only recall meeting one woman ever who was an engineer on Amtrak and one with CSX. We also had a tower operator at NA who was transferred to WB who I got use to hearing over the 2way all the time.

 

That aside, I saw a lot of conductors who were women, but I wasn't sure of how the hierarchy went. In N. America, you have to work your way up from Conductor to Engineer on the Class 1 railroads, and shortlines. In mass-trans, you work your way up from buses to either the light rail or commuter rail if it is city run. No one is hired as an engineer, even if you were an engineer on CSX and quit, NS would bring you on as a conductor. Part of the old BRE union rules pertaining to seniority.

 

However, in Japan, I've heard of men as young as 21 as full blown motormen. That big accident in Osaka two years ago, where the train tried to navigate a 15mph curve at 40 was run by a kid who was only 23. So it makes wonder if they would hire specifically for that position and there is no rank system.

 

I'm sue to seeing the masks. I sometimes wear a mask over there just to hide my foreigner's beard, LOL.

[bill937ca]

I love the airline pilots uniforms on all the railway staff.

 

The Kominato Tetsudo is another railway with a many female crew members. Here's a Japan Railway Society and Wikipedia articles on the railway:

 

http://www.japaneserailwaysociety.com/jrs/members/kiyohito/kmntrw/kmnt.htm

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kominato_Line

 

Photos of the line, including female crew are found on these sites.

 

http://denshaotaku365.canalblog.com/albums/kominato_tetsudo______/photos/18673337-_______.html

 

Female crew, school girls and cats.  :o

 

http://eaglecafe.flier.jp/0707komeki01.htm

[Guest ___]

Excellent find Bill. This is also along the lines of what I'm modeling as well. Think it might be worth a stop on my next trip to Nihon.

 

I always thoguht a good anime/manga story would be an all-women railway. :p

[C62]

Why the masks? Do they wear them because they think them necessary or are the masks a mandatory?

Thomas

[bill937ca]

Why the masks? Do they wear them because they think them necessary or are the masks a mandatory?

Thomas

 

I've heard people wear them when they think they are getting a cold because everyone is such close proximity. No germs please.  >:(    :o

[Bernard]

I was surprised at a couple of things when I was in Japan. One it wasn't uncommon to see people wearing masks in public for fear of catching or spreading a cold and the other was the large amount of people who smoke.

[Guest ___]

Singaporeans too wear the masks. But, I like to wear int in Japan, becasue it hides my Foreigner's go-t. Plus on the sunny days with my sunglasses., and I blend right in which is a good thing when in some of the rural areas where most gaigin's dear to tread.

[C62]

It could be a silly question but I have never been to Japan why is it necessary to blend in? Are the people unfriendly to foreigners?

I only tried to hide my being a foreigner in the past when taking photos in communist countries like the GDR and the CSSR.

 

Thomas

[Guest ___]

It could be a silly question but I have never been to Japan why is it necessary to blend in? Are the people unfriendly to foreigners? I only tried to hide my being a foreigner in the past when taking photos in communist countries like the GDR and the CSSR.

 

Thomas

 

It's not so much unfriendly as Xenophobic. If you walk up a service rep or someone in the service industry you would never guess it, but you start to see it when you're riding the trains, or in the malls from the man-in-the-street. Depending on where you are, they do tend to stare at foreigners, even in Tokyo. I've had drunk office workers in the evening start talking to me for no reason.

 

I've seen mothers brush their kids behind them around an older married British couple. The Japanese tolerate outsiders but as a nation they are still Xenophobic especially outside of Tokyo. Kenichirou's kids locked themselves in to their bedroom and refused to come out for two hours when I made a home visit. Ken laughed and said it was the first time they ever saw a foreigner that wasn't on TV.

 

Most of my Japanese friends here say that's left over behavior from the Baby Boomer generation and that the Gen-X and Gen-Y'ers do not typically exhibit this behavior, though it is more the norm and not. Especially outside of Tokyo, Osaka and Kyoto which are the big tourist-y areas. However, foreigners who are tall, have different color hair or in my case a beard it still draws attention

 

In my case, I got accosted (groped) by a pair of girls at Niko Castle, Kyoto several years ago. Tokyo, I had problems with people, yet in Kyushu nothing, go figure.

[Bernard]

I found the Japanese extremely friendly when we were doing the Nagano Olympics. We were constantly asked to pose with them in front of historic spots.

One of the crew members, Jamal, who is built a little like an American football player, was the most popular of all of us. He was asked more than anyone for his photograph and people were treating him like royalty. I asked him, "Jamal why are the Japanese people so eager to have their photo taken with you?" As I asked this question, an excited Japanese man was yelling to his wife, "I just got my picture taken with American football player Emmitt Smith!!"

To say the least, Jamal had the best time of all of us in Japan.

[Guest ___]

OMG, you wouldn't believe how many people thoguht I was Tom Green when I was in Kyoto in 2005. These three Japanese girls wouldn't leave me alone until I turned to my buddy Steve and punched him in the groin before runnign down the street yelling at a bus, Neko, Neko, meowm neow" At that point they were convinced I was Tom Green, I had my picture taken with them, and autographed their shirts. Unsure if it was spelled Tom Green or Green, I wrote in the name Maude Frickert. Figured they couldn't read English well enough to know any better, or they thoguht it was part of the act.

[cteno4]

have got to say in my two visits to japan i have never ever seen any xenophobic behavior in both high tourist areas and way out in the boonies. Seen a few folks looking a bit disgusted with not very polite tourists, but growing up in Monterey i totally get that! Thats just different and i expect wholly universal! I had read about japanese cultural xenophobia, but never ever witnessed it. the closest i got was when i arrived the first time i was pulled out of the customs line by two (armed!) guards and taken to a new line. i can understand this as i was up for 3 days straight before the flight preparing for the scientific meeting i was attending and just off 23 hrs of plane time (flight from hell, sf, la, anchorage, seoull, tokyo) and probably looked like a drug addict on the plane by that point. i would have picked myself out of the crowd at that point for the one with the drugs the way i looked. when they saw the hand written consulate visa for the scientific meeting (very honored visitor status, treat very nicely) everyone fell over them selves to get me to my hotel bus, carrying the bags, even seeing if i wanted a soda! While at the meeting i discovered they had given us these visas i never really had to present anywhere so it never really affected my stays anywhere.

 

on my 1984 trip i spend 1 week at an international science meeting in kyoto and 3.5 weeks wandering all over the place from sendi all the way down to ibusuki (gotta love a 3 week jr pass!). While i kind of stand out in japan like goji (6' 4" with fine blonde hair...), no one ever reacted negatively to me or seemed the least bit scared of me. A few folks did have a short shock if they all of a sudden stumbled upon me (or me them), but that only lasted a short time. If anything i found folks going out of their way in odd corners of japan to come and take a look at the blond goji that just showed up. i was always polite gawking and they were always extremely polite and asked if they wanted to take a picture of me (usually with the whole family and me) or some to touch my hair as it was so foreign to them.

 

I would approach folks out in the boonies (politely and gently) with the few phrases of japanese i knew to try and get directions, where to find something to eat, etc and never ever did anyone not try and help me. usually with the maps i had with me, pantomime and sometimes checking with a second person i was always helped out.

 

I stayed in some rat holes in shinjuku and Shibuya to experience the night life and never never had any problems or folks not treating me with courtesy and curiosity. never had to buy more than one beer in a joint as everyone wanted to come and chat, learn us slang and just seemed genuinely curious about me as i was about them. had wonderful experiences like this. a few were boring as all they wanted to learn was slang, but even that got fun at points.

 

A few times i wondered into a really locals place and was first a bit of a show stopper. but each time it was not a harsh reaction, just one more of surprise, so i always ended up staying. i always tried to just be as un obtrusive as possible and more often than not someone would come over and be friendly. one little place i ended up sticking around for like 4 hrs after dinner talking and watching sumo in a really blue collar place in a rough part of osaka. The reactions i got were much more pleasant than i think than wandering into a small out of the way locals place here in the states myself.

 

I found kids to have no problems with me. a tad shy at first (but not much more than elsewhere in the world i have experienced), but as soon as i dropped down to their level and played kid they were right there no worries. curiosity and playfulness always won out very quickly to go play with the blond goji. cant tell you how many pictures i am in in japanese albums holding kids with parents taking photographs. never had any freak on me. my wife things i am still a 7 yr old inside (she says she lives with one person but has a husband and a 7yr old) so that may help as i can relate well to kids anywhere in the world usually. they recognize someone of the same mental age i guess...

 

I always asked before taking photos of people directly and alway thank them for it. I tend to do this everywhere as i think its just polite to do so. no one ever said no and everyone seemed to perk up and like having their picture taken. This was true especially of the gashia i would run across as i think they get sick of the japanese gashia otaku photographers that hunt them and do the paparazzi thing. they would always pose beautifully and smile wonderfully afterward when thanked and seem to be very gracious.

 

When i went back for 3.5 weeks in 2003 with my wife this time, things were pretty much the same. we were in the tourist areas a lot more as she had not been there before, but we did get off the beaten path a bit and tended to hang out in the non western areas of cities. Foreign tourism was now more intrenched and tourist sites felt more plastic than 84, but that happens. i found kyoto more over grown in 2003 than 84 and not as pleasant as my memories, but tokyo seemed much cleaner and easier to get around in 2003 than in 84. other than that the trip 19 years later was just as pleasant and the japanese culture and reaction towards the blonde goji the same friendly and open mode.

 

I definitely found Japan to be the easiest, most polite and friendliest place to travel and i have been around a bit internationally.

 

I only spew all this as others seem to have different experiences and some of this is in the guides and writings out there, but i really never witnessed it. always curious if its just me or others have not experienced xenophobia in their japanese wanderings.

[bill937ca]

Series 300 and 500 Shinkansen at Shin-Osaka.

 

[scott]

I found her to be strangely charming even though I have no idea what she looks like.  I guess it's the uniform including the hat...". http://www.sotobori.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=932

 

I wonder if a male driver would be more likely to get "competent" or "relaxed" or something rather than "strangely charming."

 

I think I have a picture of her somewhere on the hard drive, though I recall her complexion was a bit rough, and I sorta botched the exposure so I guess the harem anime fans might not be as so impressed with the picture.

 

I'd think that would be a more interesting picture--a real person rather than a fashion plate. I'd hate to think that female workers, who seem to already have it hard enough, would also have to be "good looking" in order to qualify for the job. If they're there to do a job and keep the passengers safe, it shouldn't matter what they look like. (OTOH, if they're there to be titillating, like the "maid train" crew posted recently, then I guess it does matter, but that whole thing is cringeworthy.) [At this point, you hear the rush of an arrow, and I fall to the ground mumbling "message for you, sir...."  ]

 

</high horse>

[westfalen]

A crew change at Kurashiki, 01/07/06.

[bikkuri bahn]

Female motorwomen no longer unusual in Japan.  Two weeks ago on a Tohoku Main Line local train to Kuroiso (211 series), female trainee driver on a qualifying run- the examiner, which is naturally a veteran, was a woman.

[Guest ___]

I saw quite a few two weeks ago at shinosaka on the 700-railstars. The first one caught me off guard a little, but then subsequent trains I sorta got use to seeing it.

[marknewton]

On my railway women drivers are so commonplace as to go unmentioned. And that's the way it should be.

 

In my family there's two. My wife is steam-qualified, and my adopted daughter is on the suburban electrics. And yes, I'm inordinately proud of them both!  

 

STOP PRESS...

 

Our little girl is now steam-qualified as of today!

 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Triplex]

I always thoguht a good anime/manga story would be an all-women railway.

Oh, it has to be out there.

 

I think "charming" comes from the uniforms' combination of quaintness and more style-conscious design compared to North American train crews.

[Kabutoni]

I've done a quick search on Amazon Japan and came up with this:

 

- Tetsudou Musume ~Terminal Memory~ (by Tomytech, looks like more of the 'gag' kind of stories in the contemporary 'moe' style);

- Shin-Shinjuku-eki Project Arupusu Hiroba (about a planning devision of the fictive New-Shinjuku station; looks like a light humoristic series for foamers);

- Tetsuko na Sanshinai (three sisters travel in search of their dad; also in contemporary 'moe' style drawn);

- Karechi (not about a female train driver though);

 

Not so very much found, but it's a start. Maybe in Mandarake or Gamers you'll find more stuff that's not sold online.

 

Also, females in uniforms are almost always quite attractive (provided they have a cute face and don't feed on lard).

[Guest ___]

I always thoguht a good anime/manga story would be an all-women railway.

Oh, it has to be out there.

 

I think "charming" comes from the uniforms' combination of quaintness and more style-conscious design compared to North American train crews.

 

I actually started to write one with plans to get a local manga artist to draw it out to sell. Of course just like my photographic dojinshi based off of gundam HS grade models, it never happened due to having a life and a desire of getting you know what! There is a lot more story background, train and station data as well as character data, but I'm not going to bother everyone with all the details. The draft just with the story bible is like five pages.

 

Harlem manga set along the Sakura Private Railways revolving around the life of student, Hisao Nakamuro and the crew of the Sakura Private Railways. Antagonists include passengers and crews of the Kohoku Group and the Koi Synducate. Story arc consists of 13 Chapter Manga doujinshi

 

CHAPTER TITLES

Railway Lady

Take The A-Train

3:10 to Yuma

All Night Train

Casey Jones

Driver 8

Ghost Train

Jesse James

I Know You Rider

Little Red Caboose

City of New Orleans

Are You Lonely For Me Baby

One After 909

[scott]

[fe]males [optional specifier] are almost always [description]

 

This seems like dangerous sentence construction. 

[Kabutoni]

[fe]males [optional specifier] are almost always [description]

 

This seems like dangerous sentence construction. 

 

Yes, I also had second thoughts afterwards... Ah well