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keitaro

graffiti in aus

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bikkuri bahn

The Waratah is not bad IMO, a definite improvement on the sliced sandwich look of the Tangaras, heck Caltrain would be lucky to have such a design running on their system.

 

Have to agree with Mark re. the Nankai 50000, just too "out there" for my tastes- okay for an amusement park, but I just can't take them seriously. IMO, the much-maligned N700 series (at least by non Japanese fans) is heaps more elegant, and based on sound engineering principles rather than a particular designer's flight of fancy.   Once again, though, a matter of personal taste.

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The_Ghan

My point was that the Nankai is unique and unmistakable in its appearance.  Love it or hate it, I don't care.  It would be good to see better design, aestheticly, on the Sydney suburban network.  Heck, they haven't even thought to paint the trains different colours depending on which line they run.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan.

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marknewton

And so are all our trains. But that aside esthetics are the least of our concern. Pretty trains are no faster or more reliable than ugly ones.

 

As for painting trains different colours according to which line they run on, what's the point of doing that? Individual cars and sets get swapped around between sectors, maintenance centres and depots on a regular basis. Hornsby one day, Mortdale the next. Even a train that stays on sector can do a Banko circle, Liverpool via Regents Parks, Liverpool via Bankstown, Liverpool via Granville, Cambelltown via the Airport, and back to Mortdale in the course of one working day. What colour would you choose?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

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marknewton
Nice photo, ugly face.  It still has a Tangara look: yellow, black, silver, and a wedge shaped nose. Being a double-decker with only two pairs of doors per car it is still a "timetable delaying" design requiring long stops at a station while grandma climbs the stairs.

 

With the best will in the world, you're talking nonsense. The yellow panels are required by law,, Tangaras weren't painted that way originally, and the silver finish is hard to avoid when the carbody is unpainted stainless steel. The dwell times for double stock are about on par with our old single-deck stock. I know this first-hand, I've worked both types of train.

 

Plenty of big, flat panels for graffiti too ...  :grin

 

So? The older cars have the flutes/corrugations, and they still get graffitied.

 

Mark.

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The_Ghan

And so are all our trains. But that aside esthetics are the least of our concern. Pretty trains are no faster or more reliable than ugly ones.

 

As for painting trains different colours according to which line they run on, what's the point of doing that? Individual cars and sets get swapped around between sectors, maintenance centres and depots on a regular basis. Hornsby one day, Mortdale the next. Even a train that stays on sector can do a Banko circle, Liverpool via Regents Parks, Liverpool via Bankstown, Liverpool via Granville, Cambelltown via the Airport, and back to Mortdale in the course of one working day. What colour would you choose?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

Ah, the joy of the debate ... Why colour-code trains? Because it helps people identify which train they should be on and where it is going.  There's five lines at Asakusa.  As a highschool student in Japan it was easy for me to navigate the Tokyo metro system, even though I was from out of town.  Orange stripe = Ginza Line ... it even matches the colours on the map ... what a coincidence.  Perhaps City Rail management is colour blind.

 

Why is the rolling stock being swapped around so much?  Perhaps if City Rail ordered enough rolling stock in the first place, they wouldn't have this problem, I'm sure.  Maybe the trains are just not reliable enough.  Maybe the route planning for rolling stock is too complicated - perhaps to cover for short supply of rolling stock.  It seems like a nightmare to me.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

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The_Ghan

 

With the best will in the world, you're talking nonsense. The yellow panels are required by law,, Tangaras weren't painted that way originally, and the silver finish is hard to avoid when the carbody is unpainted stainless steel. The dwell times for double stock are about on par with our old single-deck stock. I know this first-hand, I've worked both types of train.

 

Hmmm, part of my job is to observe how people engage with and react to their surroundings.  I accept that you work in the industry and, I believe, test-drive the new rolling stock, or something along those lines.  But City Rail customers don't identify with trains like you and I.  I've been in Oscars and Mils and overheard people referring to them as Tangaras.  As an observer, it doesn't bother me.  It is a natural thing for people to do.  After all, its black, yellow and grey .... it must be a Tangara!  There's that colour thing creaping up on us again .... people watching is as much fun as train spotting sometimes.  Sit at Central Station with a coffee and watch people try to figure out which platform they need to go to.  Sit on the train and watch people (not the train, people) and see how they relate to the train, the equipment, the seating layout.  (If those Waratahs have fixed seating with half the seats facing backwards then the designers should be shot!).  Why make three seaters when no one wants the middle seat?  Widen the aisle and provide more standing room and circulation space instead.  I don't believe I'm talking nonsense.  I just have a user's perspective rather than an industry one.

 

Just one more point about colour: I believe coloured paint does take to stainless steel.  If cost is the issue replace those expensive stainless steel panels with aluminium or fibreglass.

 

I understand that the yellow panels are required by law.  I don't think its a good law, but it is law.  All I can say is busses don't have yellow doors and I hope my car never does!  Perhaps our houses need yellow doors?  I'm not having a dig at the trains or City Rail.  It's just a dumb law.

 

Why would you compare dwell times with current stock to that of the old red rattlers?  That wasn't my point.  How do dwell times compare with some of the better rail systems of the world where single-deck stock is used with 4-5 pairs of doors per side?  I've braved peak-hour rail travel in Tokyo, London, Paris, Berlin, Switzerland, Singapore and Hong Kong.  All seem to be better organised with shorter dwell times to me.

 

No doubt, the Waratah will be a great hit in the industry, but to City Rail customers it will just be another black, silver and yellow Tangara with slightly different seating, but the same "squash-court" smell.  Half of the passengers will have to face the wrong way and the middle seat on the three-seaters will be the last seat to be occupied.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

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keitaro

It is hard though in regards to having many different rolling stock and a few of the lines following the same path for x amount of time.

 

To top that off some services stop at different stations to another even though x destination and line is the same. (the western line for example) some stop at blacktown some at emu plains and some at penrith) Some don't stop at werrington and kingswood for example but are classified as the same line and service just slightly different time table.

 

It would be imo silly to name the hornsby to emu plains service just classified under Western line but thats how they do it.

 

To colour code a train in japan usually means the same stops every service.

 

Of course this is not for all services such as more rural ones but alot are.

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westfalen

Most of the colour coded trains in Japan are captive to one line, that just doesn't happen here in Australia. The only specific rostering of trains in Brisbane is that Gympie North services must be ICE trains because they are fitted with ATP and Gold Coast trains preferentially get IMUs or 260 class SMU's because of their higher speed, otherwise anything goes anywhere, you could have a different type unit working the same train each day of the week.

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KenS

That's true of the U.S. also.  Subway systems may have trains that are captive to lines, due to differences in platform size, track curvature, tunnel profile, or power, and color-code them to match. But commuter rail lines are generally treated as one big system even if equipment is temporarily associated with one line or part, to permit operational flexibility. And inter-city rail is one big system (Amtrak), and although some equipment is captive to individual services there isn't enough of that to make livery distinctions common (the Acela Express is one of the few exceptions, and the only one I can think of that isn't a state-subsized cooperative service).

 

Scale is also a factor here: Tokyo alone has over 1,000 train sets of commuter equipment. It's easier, and possibly even necessary, to semi-permanently associate equipment with a line, and repaint it if it moves.  And it's very important where one platform serves multiple lines and train headways are a few minutes to provide rapid recognition of which train is which if you want to board efficiently.

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bikkuri bahn
Why make three seaters when no one wants the middle seat?

 

Middle seats are the least popular the world over (human nature), but at least in the U.S., taking that seat out and widening the aisles means that much less seating space, and American commuters have less tolerance for standing than say, Japanese commuters.

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keitaro

Partly because lame trains i.e. aus ones are slow and have no hand bars to hold onto when standing and trust me there is lots of standing to be had mon - fri in peak hour. (not sure if same with U.S. trains though)

 

In regards to the 3 seats, I agree it should be just doubles. About 20 less seats in each? but makes alot more standing room. most of the time some douche has his bag on the seat anyway.

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KenS

I used to ride a commuter train to work (about 15 years ago).  During rush hour there would be standees, but no overhead hand-holds, so they'd be holding the backs of the bench seats (which seated two, typically, and some had loops at the aisle for people to hold).  Once I got off that and onto a subway train there were overhead rails and loops to hold, and at peak we were nearly immobile even without them (not Tokyo-dense, but not too far off).

 

Part of the difference was time: I was on the train for 40+ minutes, and on the subway for 15-20. The average for both was probably closer to half those numbers, but the train trips were long enough people didn't want to be standing.

 

Plus you could read on the train (this was before laptops were common, so I mean paper) whereas the subway bounced around too much to do that.

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marknewton

Yawn - yet another beat-up by the Terrorgraph. By all means offer a critique, but one based on "information" presented as fact by the Tele has very little credibility.

 

Mark.

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