Kato - New Releases

[Yavianice]

By the way, I just read on Twitter that it took KATO 2 years to license the new Thalys releases.

 

[cteno4]

Licensing is not fun. Even after spending a lot of time they can so easily fall apart after all the work. It can be really frustrating.

 

jeff

[Welshbloke]

I read a sad response from a North American manufacturer who'd been asked if there was any chance of doing the "Amroad" FP9s from Silver Streak. Apparently the film company wanted sums of money which would have made the model completely unprofitable (or raised the price to a point where nobody would pay it).

 

Just so short-sighted, the studio could have made a small sum at almost no cost to themselves from a property which was paid off years ago, but as greed kicked in, they got nothing.

[cteno4]

Sadly in rights negotiations the rights holders many times will think they should get a huge cut of the overall pie, not realizing doing so pushes the price point up to the point where it would not sell. They always think someone else will come along with magic beans to change this equation for them and they get their big cha-ching.

 

when “entertainment” companies get in the picture gets really warped! I learned early to steer clear of those rights negotiations as we had a couple of project go down in flame partway in due to the rights falling apart at the last second with unreasonable things or “oh by the way” things at the last second. Things connected to entertainment also tend to hace sub-licensing, co-licensing, and other odd restrictions that make things a nightmare to try to work out and usually so costly to work around that it’s not worth it even if the basic rights are reasonable.

 

jeff

[Cat]

At the turn of the century, Union Pacific started trying to claim royalty payments for a few years,  including for the fallen-flag D&RGW, but fortunately backed down.  Lionel was going for bankruptcy rather than paying them.  In the end, the endless bad press in railroad hobbyist magazines didn't seem worth the cost to UP:
https://www.redorbit.com/news/business/727287/up_drops_model_train_royalty_fees/

[Kiha66]

That sort of reasoning is the reason in the we see heritage schemes today in the US.  Railroads do them mostly to retain the rights to the intellectual property of their previous roads, without which the usage of the names and colors could fall into public domain.  UP has a fleet of MoW stock with fallen flag road names to ensure the railroad is technically "still in use".

[Welshbloke]

How things have changed. I recall reading that the ATSF were thrilled when Lionel wanted to release their O F3 in Warbonnet colours in the 50s. They realised it would be a free advert anywhere the locos were sold and on every owner's train set.

 

It can backfire amusingly. The Bluebell Railway have a little 0-6-0 named Stepney. The lawyers from whoever had just bought the rights to the Thomas franchise came calling...and were told that no, the railway didn't owe them a penny in licencing fees as theirs was the original that the character had been based on!

[bill937ca]

 

[Das Steinkopf]

On 6/14/2020 at 1:24 PM, Cat said:

At the turn of the century, Union Pacific started trying to claim royalty payments for a few years,  including for the fallen-flag D&RGW, but fortunately backed down.  Lionel was going for bankruptcy rather than paying them.  In the end, the endless bad press in railroad hobbyist magazines didn't seem worth the cost to UP:
https://www.redorbit.com/news/business/727287/up_drops_model_train_royalty_fees/

 

I actually remember that as a friend of mine was managing the model rail department in one of the biggest hobby stores in the country, they had virtually no models of UP stock due to that, I  have never been into US prototype so it never bothered me but I could only feel for the guys whose loyalty was towards that railroad and to see the company treat the hobby with contempt.

[cteno4]

I’ve just seen rights licensing get folks into a very odd space for some reason. Even if it’s not their creation but they just control the rights it gets into an odd thing of it being part of themselves they are giving up and they get unreasonable in odd ways at odd times and it just mucks up trying to do a really straight forward and fair deal to both sides. May also be I have always tended to do all business deals so that everyone is meeting in the middle and it’s fair and equatable all around (yes I know that’s not always the philosophy of many businesspeople) and it’s worked really well as everyone always wants to do business again and works well together and they bring me business later along with referrals and recommendations. But with the rights deals that would go out the window usually and just be seen suspiciously by the other side and get into a really greedy mode sometimes and it was scorched earth of either I get this or no one does!

 

even photographers would look at me suspiciously when I fought hard with the lawyers to have a very clean and simple 1 page photo rights agreement that was uber clear what the deal was. The boilerplate contract agreement we were using was 10 pages long and very hazy even when I questioned the lawyers on details and they would say it gave us wiggle room. The long doc scared the photographers, and rightly so. But when I rolled out the new very clear one I was met with suspicion that I was tricking them! I had done this with our other boilerplate contracts in the past for other services and such and it was always met with total joy, but when it was about rights it just was received with suspicion. Go figure...

 

jeff

[marknewton]

On 6/14/2020 at 7:38 AM, Welshbloke said:

read a sad response from a North American manufacturer who'd been asked if there was any chance of doing the "Amroad" FP9s from Silver Streak. Apparently the film company wanted sums of money which would have made the model completely unprofitable

First thing I'd have asked the film company would be to see the agreement they'd negotiated with EMD for the right to use the F-unit design... 😈

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

On 6/14/2020 at 2:26 PM, Kiha66 said:

That sort of reasoning is the reason in the we see heritage schemes today in the US.  Railroads do them mostly to retain the rights to the intellectual property of their previous roads

I know nothing about the law relating to intellectual property, but I wonder? If the locomotives of a railroad carry one of the standard colour schemes designed by EMD or Alco's styling sections, was it ever their intellectual property to begin with? 
 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Cat]

In the US case, it's trademark law, not IP.  If companies here don't vigorously defend their trademarks, they can lose the ability to do so.

The Union Pacific bean counters suddenly went into full vigorous defense mode when they realised that their logos were in danger of falling into free common use.  I think they were genuinely oblivious to the state of the hobby market and what thin profit margins it runs on, and were not expecting how much push back they would get from the industry, nor how much ill-will they would generate amongst hobbyists.  In the end when the legal cases were settled, the manufacturers did agree to pay a token licensing fee.  That was all that was ever needed to keep their trademark rights secure.

[cteno4]

Protecting your trademark is fine, but that can be done with free or at most token fees to just assure that the trademark is used in appropriate manor to further the trademark in other areas like models of the real thing. Lawyers tend to get into very expansive conditions and such that End up totally obfuscating the original purpose and needs. This can lead to the licensor felling like they need a lot of money back to cover this large deal even when it’s really only for a specific small use.
 

This is what would happen to me with the 10 page, cover every option possible, boilerplate contract for photo usage On a project. The photographer would think they were giving up a lot and thus want a lot when all we wanted was a specific use on one project and maybe an option for a second use in a spin-off version of the project. It was funny as the 10 page agreement really didn’t give us much but more legal room to maybe maneuver if we screwed up somewhere than the simple and clean this is how we are going to use it and the price we will pay contract. As time went on the simple and clean approach sunk in with the photographers we went back to a lot and they slowly got to know we were doing good educational stuff and they gave us better deals and photos and got off the professional industry pricing some. In part it was them seeing we respected them with a simple and clear agreement not a huge mess for a simple specific use.

 

jeff

[bill937ca]

 

[JR 500系]

https://s3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com/kato-model/poster/pdf/202007011528385efc2d1653334/2020-11a.pdf

 

https://s3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com/kato-model/poster/pdf/202007011534155efc2e6721800/2020-11b.pdf

 

Are you excited? Cause i certainly am!!! 

[roadstar_na6]

Nothing for me this time - luckily 😄

[Yavianice]

Never knew the N2000 ran in a 5 car composition also

[bill937ca]

I might pick up the Hiroshima Electric Railway LEX tram. Seems like this will be simpler, more functional than the Unitram.

 

 

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Yes, I was interested in one of the LEX trams too. Totally out of region for me, but I did ride in one back in September, so I may need to add one to my collection...well that's my excuse anyway...

[Yavianice]

Here is the new tram in action. Looks pretty good and the motor is well hidden. 

 

 

[gavino200]

Look too nice to resist. 

 

[JR 500系]

Ooohhh that looks way too nice! One thing though is it doesnt seem to come pre-fitted with interior lights like the Unitram and i am wondering if interior lights might fit in the tram... i'm.just a sucker for interior lights....

[brill27mcb]

Yes, this looks good to this tram/trolley guy! Also the Piccolo/Piccola 2-tram set. Working headlights/taillights, 90mm minimum curve radius and an interior just make it even more attractive. I hope the new "Combino type power unit" drive mechanism is a durably-designed one.

 

JR 500, if you look at the Hobby Search website, it appears that they think the Kato 11-211 (single) or 11-212 (multiple) lighting set fits these trams. (See under "Related Optional Parts.")

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10707592

 

Rich K.

[Das Steinkopf]

Yet again it looks like I will be waiting for Tomix or Tomytec to take my money.