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to2leo

Kato V15 What is it?

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to2leo

As an addict to Unitrack, I am completely dumbfounded when I found that Kato V15 Multi Line Station Line Set available at HW Japan.

 

At 3182 yen pre-order, what does it include?  Does it include station platform too?

 

The best that I can find is a picture from HS but I cannot really understand it.

 

Wishing someone who have more info can help  :dontknow:

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ShinCanadaSen

As I understand it, V15 is a double track set that splits the double track to wrap around a station platform between the 2 tracks. Unfortunately I've been unable to find a good picture of it :(

 

Hope that helps.

 

Edit:

From the HS description;

"- Includes: straight line 248mm × 4, straight line 124mm × 4, double-track line between transformation L × 1,

Conversion between double-track line R × 1, × 2 base end"

 

So it looks to me that no platform is included.

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David

It does not seem there is a platform included.

 

If you look very closely it seems to boil down to 2 new pieces, a left and right double track S curve piece using concrete sleeper coloring.

 

The s-curve piece appears to be the same as 2x R481 curves pieces in an S-curve formation (this shifts the track by 33mm over a length of 248mm) alongside a 248mm straight. The difference between this and just using existing pieces is that it is done in concrete sleepers, and it is one solid track piece instead of 3. The picture also suggests that with the solid connection between the two tracks it won't be possible to use a curved station platform - the diagram seems to suggest the new flagstop style short square platform ends are the ones that fit this.

 

I have no idea what the 20-875 (platform extension) pieces are - they look exactly like an ordinary pair of 248mm concrete sleeper straight pieces. These are included with the base set as well.

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Krackel Hopper

I have no idea what the 20-875 (platform extension) pieces are - they look exactly like an ordinary pair of 248mm concrete sleeper straight pieces. These are included with the base set as well.

 

I think the extension - and the whole purpose of the V15 is to be able to create a station using modern concrete ties.  Until now, you could only make a double-track station with single-sided platforms on either side.  Now you are able to use an island platform and still maintain the modern concrete tie look.

 

The extension set - from what I gather, will basically be a pair of 248mm single track concrete ties.  At present, the only concrete ties Kato has are on the 33mm spaced double track.

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David

The extension set - from what I gather, will basically be a pair of 248mm single track concrete ties.  At present, the only concrete ties Kato has are on the 33mm spaced double track.

 

Ah, I overlooked that the concrete ties where only available as double pieces, no obvious single track versions. Now the expansion set makes sense. So it's not just the left and right S-curve double track piece, it's also a 124mm and 248mm single track concrete tie piece. So for the time being it might only be possible to get those single track pieces as part of the set (124mm only as part of the large set). Granted the same exists for the 11"/12" elevated curves, which where only available through the V14 set.

 

I wonder if Kato will make a concrete tie turnout or double crossover to make a complete concrete tie set?

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KenS

The concrete-tie extension (20-875) is going to be available separately, so you can extend the station or have single-track concrete-tie tracks (all they need now are single-track curves).  It's already up for reservations on HS:

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10136444

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PhilipS

Neat. It's a Siding Set without switches.

 

I guess that KATO V15 station double-track line set 20-874 and 20-875 will complete the set?

 

It just released last week so we'll see pictures on the Kato site as it becomes readily available.

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to2leo

Pictures of V15 have released.

 

I got to say they are looking great.  This can also mean the single track will be coming out in concrete ties.  Now if they have a turnout version...

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PhilipS

So do you think the siding stations will fit snugly in between?

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KenS

At a guess, that bit of equipment that sticks out between the tracks is 48mm, so a 200mm Island Platform End #1 (23-102) will exactly fit.  The you can add more 248mm straights and 248mm Island platforms (23-100, 23-101 or 23-106) to get any length you want.

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Nozomi

Hi guys!

I'm so sorry to ask this question but for what ever reason I don't understand this V15 and extension set 20-875. I read this thread twice but I'm still not sure...

 

In the picture below I marked two pieces red. These pieces are also in the extension set 20-875. They look exactly like the usual 248 mm double track concrete-tie pieces which would mean that I don't need to order extension sets. I have lots of 248 mm double track pieces. Is that correct?

 

Also I marked other pieces blue. These look like single track pieces (concrete style) which I can't find to order anywhere. I guess I would need these pieces to make the platform longer.

 

Once again sorry for these questions!

 

[/img]

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KenS

Those red parts certainly look like ordinary 248mm straights.  I'd thought from the earlier descripton that the 20-875 set was the single-track straights, but apparently I was wrong.

 

You definitely need those blue parts to extend the station (unless you want to use wood ties).  That's disappointing, as I really wanted some concrete tie single track for my existing stations.  Hopefully they'll come out with something.

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Darklighter

I'd thought from the earlier descripton that the 20-875 set was the single-track straights, but apparently I was wrong.

 

I think you were right. The picture David posted shows 4 single track pieces as 20-875 set. I guess HS chose a wrong product picture.

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inobu

I would gather to say that the V15 is the drop in solution for a station turn out. It cleans up the unfinished look currently existing.

 

It is idea for the Viaduct station 23-125. Based on the numbers if you omit 1 set of 124mm from the V15 it gives you 1240mm the same size as the Viaduct station.

 

23-125_Over.jpg

 

 

Inobu

 

 

 

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PhilipS

Okay so with a 9 foot or 2743mm Double Viaduct station one would need 4- V15 sets (20-874),  3- 20-875 double 248mm straights, and 10 pieces of the older 248mm straights to park a 16 piece Shinkansen. Plus enough station and station extensions to match.

 

What's needed to widen the viaduct station?

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KenS

The viaduct station is formed of modular segments 248mm long and wide enough for two tracks and an island platfrom. Front and rear walls snap onto these, but the segments can be joined side-to-side as well as end-to-end.  Each Extension Set (23-232, see the scanned manual photos on the linked page) contains two of the segments. You also need to add supports of some kind (Kato's 23-018 is what I used to use, but apparently it's been discontinued).

 

You can put as many of these as you want together, but the joints do flex quite a bit, so you need good supports under each end of each segment to keep it smoothly level.

 

And, since you get a total of eight walls with each pair of segments, you wind up with lots of extras.  Jeff posted a neat technique for using those sides with a base made of masonite and foamcore in place of the plastic segments, which works quite well for large stations (it's essentially what I used for my station, although I didn't include the formica layer he used).

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KenS

My V15 sets (two) arrived last week, and yesterday my extra packs of concrete-tie single-track showed up.  I'm going to be replacing all wood-tie track on my Shinkansen line (still not quite prototypical since it's not slab track) and also using it on the visible parts of my subway line and perhaps in the commuter stations, although the mix with wood-tie curves there may make that a bad idea.

 

As you can see, the new set has a more gentle curve (much more suitable for Shinkansen), but you do have to sacrifice some length for that gentle curve. Note that the platforms in the second photo are not included (I already had those).

 

Photo 1: the boxes. When you order ten of the track sets, they send them in the original Kato box.

 

Photo 2: a comparison of the new V15 curve with the R481 curves I have been using. Note how much platform length you lose by replacing the #4 end from the 23-105 set with the stub end from the 23-120 set.

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to2leo

Thanks for posting the pictures!  I am tempted to get 4 V15s for my suburban station.

 

You are right Ken S, too bad the non-covered platform length has to be sacrificed for the aesthetics look.  I kinda like more uncovered platform length so that the parked trains are not hidden under the canopy.

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PhilipS

Any word on modern concrete switches?

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David

Any word on modern concrete switches?

 

I don't think it's impossible, but I somewhat doubt it. A total of 3 switches (and 2 mirror variants) in the entire history of Unitrack. The #4 switches probably only exist because Kato wasn't happy with the compromises made in the #6 - not 33mm spacing, both points have same polarity. I think Kato knows they'll never catch up or compete with Tomix on the basis of point work variety or general trackwork geometry and flexibility (the larger ballast definitely hinders any attempt to do so). Instead Kato seems to concentrate on being the superior setup and take down track - better joiner, wider ballast (more stable), many pre-formed high qualitity components (like the V15 set!) and plug and play buildings (like the plate system).

 

Of course there is the flip side - unless the concrete vs. wood ties are different textures (anyone ever looked really close?) they can just use the same tooling and different paint. But that still leaves Kato with at least 2 extra SKUs to manufacture and carry inventory on, and I suspect the margin and inventory costs on the turnouts are not as good as say plastic structures or even the basic track.

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Mudkip Orange

Plus lots and lots and LOTS of rail lines, worldwide (incl. Japan) pair wooden-tie switches with concrete-tie track - since switches are a wear item and have to be replaced or overhauled much more often anyway.

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KenS

Of course there is the flip side - unless the concrete vs. wood ties are different textures (anyone ever looked really close?) they can just use the same tooling and different paint. But that still leaves Kato with at least 2 extra SKUs to manufacture and carry inventory on, and I suspect the margin and inventory costs on the turnouts are not as good as say plastic structures or even the basic track.

 

The concrete ties actually have the profile of a real concrete tie: the center is slightly lower than the part where the rail sits. The wooden ties are level all the way across.

 

What I'd like to see are single-track CT curves.  I don't need switches; as Mudkip observes it's fairly common to use wooden-tie switches on CT track, although some railways do use CT switches. And I agree with you on the cost aspect; switches are much higher cost and lower volumes of sales than track. But the lack of curves is annoying.  As is the fact that Kato actually makes a S124 in CT (there are four in the V15 set, along with four S248), but doesn't sell them separately, at least not yet.  I'd like to have S124 and S62 straights at a minimum.

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PhilipS

Are there Triple Track Catenary poles in N scale?

 

Otherwise we have to resort to cleverly alternating double track Catenary poles across the track.

 

Area of concern are two Island Station sidings with a single track running in between for a total of 5 tracks across.

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