Kato EF58-61 decoder install

[Martijn Meerts]

One of the best running locomotives I have is Kato's EF58-61. It's one of the locomotives used to pull the emperor's train at one time or another, so it might be that Kato gave it a little extra attention. It's also one of the locomotives that pulled the Orient Express when it visited Japan, and this is also the reason why I bought it.

 

The install was pretty straightforward. The shell didn't want to come off at first, but the tabs that keep it in place are fairly large, and right near the front and rear of the train, so the shell needed to be bent quite a bit before the tabs got enough clearance. After that though, it was a fairly standard Kato affair. I'm pretty sure it can fit some or the other Digitrax drop in decoder, but I went with a wired install using a Lenz Silver+ Mini.

 

 

Image 01:

Shell removed. You can see the circuit board, which looks standard Kato and a good candidate for a drop in replacement. Also notice the little green tab at the front of the locomotive. It's a magnet, and it has these on both sides. No clue why they're there though =)

 

Image 02:

Circuit board removed, revealing the copper pickup strips and the plastic cage keeping the motor in place.

 

Image 03:

Pickup strips and plastic cage removed, revealing a 5-pole motor with 2 rather massive flywheels (no wonder it runs so silky smooth :)) and the worm gears. There's also the 2 copper tabs sticking up from the motor, these are normally connected to the circuit board. Since we don't really need them to be that long, I tend to shorten them and solder the wires for the motor to the tabs.

 

Image 04:

The entire thing taken apart (well, not entirely, the bogies are still in 1 piece). The frame is 1 piece and quite heavy. The motor is fairly big, and also quite heavy because of the flywheels.

 

Image 05:

The front wheels removed from the bogie. It's actually quite a strange construction with this mini-bogie connected to the front of the actual bogie. I guess it's to make sure it can get through curves reasonably well (minimum radius is 249mm according to Kato.) Also note the difference between the standard Arnold coupler and the (included) knuckle coupler.

[Martijn Meerts]

Image 06:

Close up of the grey wire soldered to the shortened copper tab of the motor. The orange wire is connected in the exact same way.

 

Image 07:

Grey and orange wires run through the holes originally used for the motor tabs. I made the holes slightly larger so the wires wouldn't get squashed when the circuit board is put back in its place. I also soldered red and black wires to the copper pickup strips. I did the soldering before putting the copper strips back onto the plastic cage btw ;)

 

Image 08:

The circuit board with wires for front light, rear light and common anode soldered on. There was a capacitor to the left of the resistor (the tiny black thing close to where the blue wire is soldered to the circuit board) which I removed. I cut the copper trace just below where the blue wire is soldered to the board, as well as directly left of the yellow wire (hard to see) and to the right of the white wire. This is to isolate the lighting circuitry from the power pickup. I also had to flip 1 of the LEDs (they're on the bottom of the circuit board, right at the edges) to make sure I had a common anode.

 

Image 09:

The decoder in its final resting place. I seem to have forgotten to take a picture of the decoder in place without the shell on ... It's a tight fit, but a fit nevertheless. The hole will be covered by some roof detail.

 

Image 10:

A rather crappy picture of the loco completely re-assembled. Now I just need to add the detail bits :)

[KenS]

Also notice the little green tab at the front of the locomotive. It's a magnet, and it has these on both sides. No clue why they're there though =)

 

At a guess, that's to hold the headmark.  I don't have any loco-hauled passenger trains yet, but I've seen references to magnetic headmarks somewhere.

[Martijn Meerts]

Also notice the little green tab at the front of the locomotive. It's a magnet, and it has these on both sides. No clue why they're there though =)

 

At a guess, that's to hold the headmark.  I don't have any loco-hauled passenger trains yet, but I've seen references to magnetic headmarks somewhere.

 

 

Ah, I should check it out. It does include the emperor's headmark/flags thingy. Don't think I'd feel comfortable running a loco where the headmark isn't glued on though, it's asking for derailment trouble if/when the headmark decides to fall off =)

[gavino200]

This is a great instructional thread. However, I'm wondering if anyone knows if a drop-in decoder has been made for the EF58 in the eight years since this thread was made? 

Edited May 27, 2018 by gavino200

[Kiha66]

42 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

This is a great instructional thread. However, I'm wondering if anyone knows if a drop-in decoder has been made for the EF58 in the eight years since this thread was made? 

 

NGDCC makes a drop in replacement, otherwise you can use the digitrax DN163K0a or similar from another company.  The non NGDCC decoders will require some slight work but I think the should mostly fit.  The DN163k0a is almost drop in, but the board is too thick to let the kato clip hold it in place.

[gavino200]

1 hour ago, Kiha66 said:

 

NGDCC makes a drop in replacement, otherwise you can use the digitrax DN163K0a or similar from another company.  The non NGDCC decoders will require some slight work but I think the should mostly fit.  The DN163k0a is almost drop in, but the board is too thick to let the kato clip hold it in place.

 

I think I'll go with the Digitrax. I'm guessing I'll need to resolder the LEDs. I don't mind not using the grey clip. Does the shell close properly over the body with the Digitrax in place?

 

Thanks for telling me about NGDCC it looks like a great resource for Japanese Katos. I'd go with them this time. But Nariichi has already sent my Orient Express coach set. I'll like to have the loco ready and waiting when it arrives.

[Kiha66]

The LED's should be really easy, just desolder the existing ones, trim the leads and then solder them back in place.  I've been meaning to do my EF58 so I can give it a go later this evening and let you know how is goes.

 

I'm really excited to see how the Orient Express coaches look, be sure to share pictures when they arrive! 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Kiha66

[gavino200]

1 minute ago, Kiha66 said:

The LED's should be really easy, just desolder the existing ones, trim the leads and then solder them back in place.  I've been meaning to do my EF58 so I can give it a go later this evening and let you know how is goes.

 

I'm really excited to see how the Orient Express coaches look, be sure to share pictures when they arrive! 

 

Great. Good luck with the install. Yes, I'll be sure to post pics of the OE. 

[gavino200]

On 5/27/2018 at 7:42 PM, Kiha66 said:

The LED's should be really easy, just desolder the existing ones, trim the leads and then solder them back in place.  I've been meaning to do my EF58 so I can give it a go later this evening and let you know how is goes.

 

I'm really excited to see how the Orient Express coaches look, be sure to share pictures when they arrive! 

 

Did you have any luck with this install? I can't get the DN163K0a to make contact.

[Kiha66]

32 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

Did you have any luck with this install? I can't get the DN163K0a to make contact.

 

I had the same issue, I couldn't get it to reliably make contact with the board for some reason.  I tried using the outside motor contact spacing too, but that also would not work reliably for me.  I've decided to leave the model DC for now and order the NGDCC drop in decoder for it, and use the DN163K0a in my EF66 instead.  Its all very strange as the decoder fits perfectly, it just wont work unless I hold it down.

[gavino200]

Ah, good to know it wasn't just me. I think I'll wire one in as per Mr. Meerts.

[Kiha66]

Edit: the EF66 uses a similar design and the DN163K0a doesnt make good contact there either.  I guess I can use it in my kato PA unit at least?  Looks like I'm going to have to order two decoders from NGDCC.

[gavino200]

1 minute ago, Kiha66 said:

Edit: the EF66 uses a similar design and the DN163K0a doesnt make good contact there either.  I guess I can use it in my kato PA unit at least?  Looks like I'm going to have to order two decoders from NGDCC.

 

I'm going to put it back in its bag and toss it into my "miscellaneous decoders" tub. Eventually, I'm sure I'll use it.

 

On the bright side, the decoder did work with slight downward pressure. That means that the motor pickups must be well isolated from the body halves. So, it shouldn't be necessary to take the whole thing apart like Martjin did. Soldering to the motor connections should be enough.

[Kiha66]

I figured it out!  You have to unclip the brass strips from where they are held in the plastic, as it is holding them just below the bottom of the decoder.  I'll post a picture of what I mean.

[Kiha66]

@gavino200

Edited June 3, 2018 by Kiha66

[Kiha66]

Edited June 3, 2018 by Kiha66

[Kiha66]

This should also work for the EF66 as well.

[gavino200]

56 minutes ago, Kiha66 said:

I figured it out!  You have to unclip the brass strips from where they are held in the plastic, as it is holding them just below the bottom of the decoder.  I'll post a picture of what I mean.

 

Thanks. I did this. Contact was improved but it still needed slight downward pressure to run. So I just laid a piece of thin card from some packaging on top. Now it works fine. 

 

I love the little flag. I'll add the other details later. I ordered this loco for the Orient Express, but I love the little emperor flags, so I ordered the emperor coaches to go with it. I ordered the other two Orient express locos, too anyway. The D-51 and the EF-65. I don't know what I was thinking!

 

 

[Kiha66]

That looks awesome Gavin!  I found my shell didnt quite fit back on so I think I'll wait for the other decoder, and use this one for the PA for now.

[gavino200]

6 minutes ago, Kiha66 said:

That looks awesome Gavin!  I found my shell didnt quite fit back on so I think I'll wait for the other decoder, and use this one for the PA for now.

 

Hmmm. I taped my decoder down with two strips of capton tape as well. Need to be careful to avoid it being visible through the windows. I also removed the 'snowdome' shaped LEDs and replaced them with the tiny LEDs from the stock light board. That wasn't easy btw. (need to solder them upside-down on short prongs because of polarity). I wonder if that's a factor?

 

Without tape, I can't imagine the decoder staying in place as you replace the shell.

Edited June 3, 2018 by gavino200

[chadbag]

Thanks.  I am following this.   Will be doing with the TCS version of the decoder (same application TCS)...

[Chris bennion]

Hi I'm chris from the uk. I've just joined ur forum as I'm pretty new to dcc and at my wits end about coverting 2 of my ef58 locos. When you take of the body shell your left with the motor  and drive shaft in a metal casing, no pick ups. Dont know where to start.Can anybody help. Many thanks, chris

[chadbag]

For problems with the decoder touching, you can always solder a wire from the strip to the decoder...  With TCS I have to do that anyway as they don't have the underside pickup pads, just the ones on top for the older style that have the little strips that wrap up over.

 

[Martijn Meerts]

11 hours ago, Chris bennion said:

Hi I'm chris from the uk. I've just joined ur forum as I'm pretty new to dcc and at my wits end about coverting 2 of my ef58 locos. When you take of the body shell your left with the motor  and drive shaft in a metal casing, no pick ups. Dont know where to start.Can anybody help. Many thanks, chris

 

I'm guessing you have a newer version of the model compared to mine. I think the best thing to do, is to post a couple of pictures so we can get an idea of how the model looks. The EF58 from this thread is the only one I have, but I do have several other locomotives that have no pick up strips.