Running KATO Trains On Compact Line Tracks

[JJ1892]

Has anyone successfully ran non-compact trains on KATO compact line tracks ?

 

I need some sharp turns in my evolving layout and would like to double check that normal trains (non shinkansen) will not derail often. I do not mind slowing down towards those turns as long as I can keep a middle of the throttle speed. 

 

Will thank you for your thoughts, 

 

JJ1892

[UnfinishedKit]

Some will some won’t. This is a Kato KiHa 110 on 150mm radius track, (admittedly hand laid and gauged down to 7.1mm)

 

 

it definitely works but there’s a lot of overhang. 
 

There will be more issues the longer the train is - more friction in the bend for the loco to overcome, more chance of the car bodies striking their inner corners together and more chance of separating at the couplings and different couplings may behave differently. You’ll do better with Arnold style couplings as they generally allow more separation between  vehicles. 

 

[cteno4]

JJ,

 

regular trains, like 18-20m ones, are going to have a harder time on the r183mm compact track and definitely on the r150, these tracks are really meant for the little pocket line trains and trams. Longer single car trains will probably make it to the r150, but i expect most multi car trains will have problems at r150 and maybe r183. Couplings may have issues depending on a few variables like the kind of coupler, the play of the coupler and how far back the truck is located on the frame [this gives the truck a narrower swing]. The longer the train also the more chance of something going wrong. Very close coupled trains are going to have issues as little play in there and corners of bodies can contact. When things get tight you can have issues with rapido couplers uncoupling or more tight holding couplers causing derailments when things get too tight. Also i will depend on how the tight curve sections are integrated into the trak plan. Would be best to have a wider radius easement into and out of a tight radius section [this is how the prototypes do it] than straight track then the tight radius and back. Also best to keep points away from right on either side of the tight curve as push on the trucks can cause wheels to jump on point flangework and blade points.

 

the tomix body mount tight couplers help some as they are body mounted [not pushing on trucks] as well as have a wider swing out the coupler can do on tighter curves. 

 

Some absolutely hate how their regular length trains look on even things like r249 so thats something to consider if you object to the looks of the train.

 

its one of those things you sort of need to play with to see what works for you visually and functionally. Manufactures will sometimes give a minimum suggested radius to trains and you can sometimes go even tighter, but they usually do this as the trains may have issues with the tighter radiuses [especially shinkansens]. 

 

If you are designing a more permanent layout i would get some of the radius you want to use and test it with some of your trains. As you saw with the inclines there are a number of variables at play in all these situations and when you push those variable out to more extremes you will find some permutations just wont work and need to see if you are happy wishing one of the permutations that does work.

 

Jeff

[SwallowAngel]

Hey there,

 

to be honest with you the answer to this topic kinda depends on the kind of trains you want to run. As @cteno4 said, all pocket line trains should fit the bill, but I assume you want to run something "real" rather than freelanced designs.

Now, regular coaches (without tight coupling) should go around no problem, the problem you're facing here though is the rather large overhang. You'll need to take the clearance into account for those. Otherwise freight cars, passenger cars and whatever other non-powered rolling stock should work (no guarantees though😅).

As for locos, you're rather limited, as Japanese EL and DL tend to have rather long (rigid-ish) wheelbases. So for those I'd only really consider anything with four axles on two bogies (rather tightly spaced ofc). Kato's DD13 for example is rated for R150, so that could be nice loco to use.

As for my favourite kind of traction, steam, you actually have a rather large variety of loco's to choose from. KATO's C12 and C56 are rated for R140 and R183 respectively, with their C11, while being rated for R216, probably being able to squeeze into R183. Shigemon actually managed to get a C62(!) running on R183 with some mods and a TOMIX C57 is also able to run through that tight radius as seen here, so you'll have more that enough loco's to model a ridiculously tight branch line.

(Shigemon also ran his D51s on some ridiculously tight curves, so that might also be doable, but I haven't been able to confirm the radius of those vids)

 

As for EMU's/DMU's, I am quite skeptical tbh. Most modern models have kinematic couplers as standards, so the problem you'll face with those is not bogie flexibility, but rather "carriage lock" as I suspect most kinematics won't be able to cope with much beyond their rated radii. The only ones you'll be able to run (probably) are ones fitted with "regular" coupler pockets. I can't say much about these though, since I barely run them myself 😅.

 

While this is not quite your radius, this earlier post has some decent info and pointers too, so definitely worth a read for your case.

 

Now, while all the above mentioned solutions are fine and dandy, I'd actually recommend considering running B-Train Shorties on such a short radius. If you're already throwing (somewhat) prototypical track dimensions out the window why not embrace the small and cute? They might be tad hard to get nowadays, but you can get most sets/kits if you look hard enough 🙂

 

Anyhow, as always, your layout your rules, hope this was helpful!

Edited March 13 by SwallowAngel

[mr bachmann]

If you are just playing trains there are lots of small locos that can do mini curves , I use Tomix track , mini curves , locos shown do mini curves but struggle on super mini (106mm) 

 

[JJ1892]

Thank you for all the answers. My first priority is the trains I like and then the Layout. As this specific use of track is on a contention point where 60% of the trains pass, i'll find a different track pattern.  

 

 @SwallowAngel thank you for pointing that trains are rated. I eventually I found it in the catalog at the bottom of each model. Great find (-: 

 

JJ1892

[Welshbloke]

I'm slightly surprised Kato haven't made another batch of the KuMoHa 11/12 and KuMoNi 13 units. These will cheerfully go through R183 or R150 curves and must have represented a hefty investment in tooling, but I think they've only offered them a couple of times at most.

 

Some US diesels and of course the "Kato Traction" version of the Pocket Line steeplecab will fit, just stick to 40' or shorter cars (you could build something inspired by the Jay St Connecting RR in NYC, using those curves with the smallest locos).