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Measurements and Mediums


disturbman

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2 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Very good point you can do economy by filling he sheet! Exactly what I don’t do at home to save ink! Nice you can do legal. Is it a photo paper or just a clay impregnated inkjet paper? Way back kinks use to let you use your own paper but I expect that doesn’t happen at staples.


Not exactly sure what the paper is, other than a good quality gloss 28 lb.
 
They have signs up saying 'don't load your own paper, but ask and you might be able to use it.'

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brill27mcb
3 hours ago, disturbman said:

This thread has become unreadable for non-Imperial users 😅

28 lb. would be 2 stone by my reckoning? Does that help?  🤪

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American stones are a different form of measurement all together. 😜

 

Jeff

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8 minutes ago, disturbman said:

So... one legal paper weights about one fifth of a European lawyer?

Yeah haven’t you ever seen American lawyers? They all look like Olympic heavyweight lifters, have to be to lift a 50 page contract of 28lb legal paper…

 

jeff

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railsquid

@disturbman  I grew up with this stuff, so it's very simple: there are ounces (which are used to weigh flour, and in the US drink sizes for some reason, that really confused me), pounds (which are used in the UK to weigh cheese, and in the US to weigh body weight), and stones (which are used in the UK to weigh body weight, and in the US no idea? cheese?) and there are 12 ounces in one pound, 14 pounds in one stone, and 16 stones in a hundredweight, or maybe it's the other way round. However Fahrenheit to Celsius is very easy, -44°F is -44°C, and if you are in the UK and want to know if someone is older or younger than ca. 55 years, ask them the temperature.

 

 

Edited by railsquid
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gavino200
6 hours ago, disturbman said:

This thread has become unreadable for non-Imperial users 😅

 

Oh, don't get me started. I can't stand historical measurements. Metric is so simple and easy. I've seen so many people here struggle hilariously to do math using "standard" measurements, right after telling me how easy they are to use. I also can't stand needing to maintain two different sets of tools? Murica really needs to move on!! Is England still using that crap, or did the Europeans make them change before they jumped ship?

 

 

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gavino200

Ah, the EEC. It snook away so stealtily only to slide back in wearing it's new "EC" garb. I also grew up with a mix. Everything in school was metric, while the country still ran according to the standards of Mama Britannia. I'm also not qualified to comment on Eirin's measurments these days but I believe it became fully integrated into the the current global measurement standard.

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gavino200
23 minutes ago, Cat said:


Love my double sets of measuring tools!  Sometimes 1/64" units gets me right where I want, sometimes mm.  
 
If I could buy an accurate metal ruler in Imperial Roman Measurements, I'ld buy it in a flash to add to the quiver.
: 3

 

Too bad. All my ancient measurements metal rulers are in Punic and Minoan measurements.

 

You could probable make your own wooden Roman ruler like these guys. Or etch yourself a metal one.

 

 

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I used to be in publishing and I’m used to paper weights measured as gsm (grams per square metre). The usual range for books would be papers of 100 to 200 gsm. When you say 28lb, is that per ream or something similar?

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Empirical paperweights are very confusing. It’s an on blend of the weight of a ream of the stock it’s cut from. The it’s interpreted these days on other ways as well like the weight of a ream of the cut paper, Not as straightforward as the metric weights which are sane! 
 

in think a lot of the purchases over the counter papers are pounds per cut ream.
 

jeff

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Yes it is, but the paper types all have different sizes for the uncut ream. General paper types are bond, text, Bristol, cover and index. To make it annoying each has a different size of stock paper it’s cut from and it’s a weight of a ream or that which is the “weight”. To make it even more annoying some use different terms and there are more of them as well.
 

A standard copy paper is like 20lb bond and is equivalent to 50lb text paper! I think the 24lb Cat was referring to is a bond weight and that slightly heavier quality photo paper. Photo papers are weird to as some seem to be light for their thickness while others heavy with a lot of clay added to stop the ink wicking. I’m guessing the lighter, thicker stuff have some sort of coating on them to stop the wicking, but not as heavy pressed a paper.
 

Use to make my head hurt but if you screw up it’s not fun on a print job… I use to request a piece of the paper before a run just to make sure I didn’t screw up or have a semantics issue with the printer, even then I would get confused, I’m dyslexic so this sort of mash up just screws with my brain.
 

jeff

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5 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Yes it is, but the paper types all have different sizes for the uncut ream. General paper types are bond, text, Bristol, cover and index. To make it annoying each has a different size of stock paper it’s cut from and it’s a weight of a ream or that which is the “weight”. To make it even more annoying some use different terms and there are more of them as well.

Yikes! I was 17 when we officially changed to metric here in Australia and I found the change pretty seamless. I wonder how we used to measure paper weight before that. Sometimes U.S. measures differ from British imperial such as for volume measures.

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Well it’s not the issue of empirical measurement so much as it’s relying on different sized stock sheets each of the different papers is cut from and the bloody terminology not being Uber consistent. It’s this 18th century printing holdover stuff… glad I don’t have to deal with it much anymore 

 

jeff

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chadbag
On 1/11/2022 at 4:15 PM, railsquid said:

@disturbman  I grew up with this stuff, so it's very simple: there are ounces (which are used to weigh flour, and in the US drink sizes for some reason, that really confused me), pounds (which are used in the UK to weigh cheese, and in the US to weigh body weight), and stones (which are used in the UK to weigh body weight, and in the US no idea? cheese?) and there are 12 ounces in one pound, 14 pounds in one stone, and 16 stones in a hundredweight, or maybe it's the other way round. However Fahrenheit to Celsius is very easy, -44°F is -44°C, and if you are in the UK and want to know if someone is older or younger than ca. 55 years, ask them the temperature.

 

 

So, I don't know about the UK, but in the US there are 16 ounces in one pound of weight, and it is -40C = -40F...

 

I think the difference for liquids is that the British pint is 20 ounces and not 16.  But the fluid ounce size is not the same either (see: https://blog.ansi.org/2018/06/why-pint-bigger-in-uk-than-in-us-volume/#gref  -- this link also has a history of the systems)

 

BTW, the US is not the Imperial system.  It is the US Customary System and is derived from older English system weights 9basically the customary weights and measurements at the time of the US founding).  The IMperial System came into being in 1824 in Britain, and is also based on English system but derived differently.

 

I believe fluid ounce comes from the amount of wine(US) / water (water) that weighs one ounce in weight.  (I thought it was water but the link above explains it)

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chadbag
On 1/11/2022 at 6:08 PM, gavino200 said:

 

Oh, don't get me started. I can't stand historical measurements. Metric is so simple and easy. I've seen so many people here struggle hilariously to do math using "standard" measurements, right after telling me how easy they are to use. I also can't stand needing to maintain two different sets of tools? Murica really needs to move on!! Is England still using that crap, or did the Europeans make them change before they jumped ship?

 

 

 

The normal US system is easy peasy.  Metric is a different easy peasy.  It is what you are used to.  My wife, from Japan, still has no clue about the US measurement system...  For her it is totally obtuse.  But I have no problem using it, having grown up with it and used it all my life.  I've also used metric since I was a kid as needed, and as a kid in the 70s the US had a big push to adopt the metric system.  Road signs started being labeled in both, etc.  The push failed.   Too entrenched.

 

How about this!:

 

In the US, carbonated beverages are sold in 1 liter and 2 liter and 3 liter bottles, but usually in 16oz bottles and 12 oz cans.  But bottled water is also available in 500 ml bottles (which is about 16.7 or some such in ounces).   You rarely find quart bottles.  Milk is sold in gallons, as are other things like gallons of fruit punch and other sweet crap.   Large gallon sized bottled (non carbonated) water can be found in both liters and gallons.

 

Cream and half/half are sold in pints, half pints, etc (pint = 16 (US) fluid ozs -- unlike the 20 (UK) fluid ounce pint).

 

Gasoline is sold in Gallons and motor oil is sold in quarts.  But engine displacement can be either cc(ml) or also in liters or in cubic inches.  Ie, my VW has a 1.4 liter engine.  (Engine displacement is more based on where the engine comes from, kind of, as the traditional Chevy and other big-boy engines are usually in cubic inches, but my Dodge truck with a Cummins was a 5.9 liter engine even though that is a US maker all around, while European and Asian cars are listed in liters or cc).  (Yes, I know that engines are rounded to the nearest tenth of a liter usually and a 2.0 is not exactly 2000cc but usually 1980cc or something)

 

Distances are measured in miles/feet etc.  (btw, 1 US mile is 5280 feet) but track and field and long course swimming measure events mostly in meters, though older US track and field are in yards and most short course swimming is yards (25 to be precise) though some short course swimming is done in meters.

 

Speaking of paper sizes, none of this Ax and Bx crap for us.  A4 paper is too skinny anyway.  8.5"x11" letter and 8.5" x 14" legal for me! 🙂

 

 

And we get along with this mixed system just fine.

 

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disturbman
Posted (edited)

Exactly, it's the lack of consistency and logic that makes it difficult to switch from metric to Imperial or pseudo-Imperial. You need practice. I mean, how can you describe a piece of paper as "skinny" and think others will be able to grasp what you mean ???

Edited by disturbman
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We are humans. We speak a thousand different languages, hundreds of religions, and array of politics. Hard to get us very consistent and logical.

 

jeff

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chadbag
8 hours ago, disturbman said:

Exactly, it's the lack of consistency and logic that makes it difficult to switch from metric to Imperial or pseudo-Imperial. You need practice.

 

No, you just need math 🙂

 

8 hours ago, disturbman said:

 I mean, how can you describe a piece of paper as "skinny" and think others will be able to grasp what you mean ???

 

Easy, when the proportions look "off" to make somethimng "skinny" it means it is noticeably taller than wide. It is not an imperial, US, or metric thing.   And for the record, I don't go around calling paper "skinny".  I used it as an humorous "dig" at ISO 216 standard paper sizes only 🙂

 

Edited by chadbag
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gavino200
6 hours ago, chadbag said:

 

No, you just need math 🙂

 

 

Lol That's exactly my issue with the British system that we use here.  Most Americans simply don't have the Math skills to handle it. I've no doubt that it works for Chad, Cat, and Jeff, but watching the regular store worker try to deal with fractions and conversions is almost hilarious. I've even had contractors make some pretty dumb errors.

 

All these systems work. I use the British system a lot. Most of my tools are in British and most of my ordering has to be done in British. But metric is quite a bit easier to do math with. When it comes to math the average murican needs as much help as they can get! 😂

Edited by gavino200
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chadbag
17 hours ago, gavino200 said:

 

Lol That's exactly my issue with the British system that we use here.  Most Americans simply don't have the Math skills to handle it.😂

 

I am pretty sure that anyone that can handle math enough to use metric measurements can handle US customary (or Imperial if you are in UK) measurements.   The Americans lacking math skills can't make change for a dollar without a machine spelling it out.  And a dollar is "metric" (100 based).  (Like the story I recently saw of someone having a drive through order that came to something like $15.25.  They gave the person $16.25 to get an even dollar back in change and the person couldn't understand and said they paid too much, and when the guy paying explained the person got the manager who said "we don't do that"  LOL)

 

 

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