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N scale working signals


gavino200

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  • I'm using this post to collect together the various options available for working signals on the market. The first post will be an index and I'll use the posts below to feature individual signals as I encounter them. Please feel free to post suggestions and I'll add them.

 

 

Japanese Signals

 

Kato

 

Kato 20-605 Automatic 3 Color Signal. 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10003083

 

 

Tomix

 

Tomix - TCS 3 colors Signal pillar

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10405410

 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10160430

 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10160426

 

5 color signal

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10160419

 

4 color signal

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10040327

 

2 color

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10043605

 

Semaphore

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10096030

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10053398

 

 

European Signals

Viessmann 

https://viessmann-modell.com/en/product-range/gauge-n/colour-light-signals/

 

Fleischmann signals

https://www.fleischmann.de/en/productsearch/0-0-0_1000_0-1-0-0-0-006002_105-1/products.html

 

Faller

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Faller+car-system/Car+System+Acces./Faller-162060/gb/modell_260452.html

 

Busch

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Landscape+%26+Decoration/Decoration+scenes/Busch-5951/gb/modell_29113.html

 

US Signals 

 

Kato 20-605 Automatic 3 Color Signal

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/kato-n-20605-unitrack-automatic-3-color-signal/

 

Atlas

 

Starter set

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Atlas-N-Signal-Starter-Set/

 

Single head Signal

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Atlas-N-70000102-Signal-Type-G-Single-Head/

 

Double head

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Atlas-N-70000103-Signal-Type-G-Double-Head/

 

 

 

Digitrax

 

Turnout signals

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/digitrax-n-snabc-turnout-signal-mast-kit-with-a-b-c-configurations/

 

Mainline signals

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/digitrax-n-sn2ab-mainline-signal-mast-kit-with-2-a-and-2-b-configurations/

 

 

 

Showcase Miniatures

Searchlight signal

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/showcase-miniatures-n-514-pole-mount-searchlight-signal-kit/

 

Single green light

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/showcase-miniatures-n-513-light-capable-dwarf-signal-kit-3-per-pack/

 

 

Chinese signals from AliExpress

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32953479635.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.2aac5228yVRI5f&algo_pvid=075da085-bd8b-4757-8fb6-1127cc94ecfb&algo_expid=075da085-bd8b-4757-8fb6-1127cc94ecfb-5&btsid=0b0a555916130015999721982e4efb&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32817518385.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.2aac5228yVRI5f&algo_pvid=075da085-bd8b-4757-8fb6-1127cc94ecfb&algo_expid=075da085-bd8b-4757-8fb6-1127cc94ecfb-7&btsid=0b0a555916130015999721982e4efb&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32253614506.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.2aac5228yVRI5f&algo_pvid=075da085-bd8b-4757-8fb6-1127cc94ecfb&algo_expid=075da085-bd8b-4757-8fb6-1127cc94ecfb-9&btsid=0b0a555916130015999721982e4efb&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32253369480.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.2aac5228yVRI5f&algo_pvid=075da085-bd8b-4757-8fb6-1127cc94ecfb&algo_expid=075da085-bd8b-4757-8fb6-1127cc94ecfb-12&btsid=0b0a555916130015999721982e4efb&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32795782717.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.2aac5228yVRI5f&algo_pvid=075da085-bd8b-4757-8fb6-1127cc94ecfb&algo_expid=075da085-bd8b-4757-8fb6-1127cc94ecfb-29&btsid=0b0a555916130015999721982e4efb&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

 

 

 

Non working signals

 

Greenmax

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10248202

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10752712

 

TGW

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10028885

 

Busch

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Landscape+%26+Decoration/Decoration/Busch-5850/gb/modell_29069.html

Edited by gavino200
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Is the KATO one a Japanese signal or a US signal.   I don't know anything about signaling but based on the seller and its generic inclusion at KATOUSA.com I would think it is a US signal.

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2 minutes ago, chadbag said:

Is the KATO one a Japanese signal or a US signal.   I don't know anything about signaling but based on the seller and its generic inclusion at KATOUSA.com I would think it is a US signal.

yes it is.  The Japanese version has the signal on the left hand side of the track.

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16 minutes ago, katoftw said:

yes it is.  The Japanese version has the signal on the left hand side of the track.

 

You're completely right. Weird that they both have the same number, Kato 20-605

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On 2/10/2021 at 12:56 PM, gavino200 said:

 

 

The only real contenders for my signal are the Tomix and surprizingly the chinese signals. I'd really prefer 4 light signals which the Chinese manufacturer doesn't seem to have. 

 

 

One thing that bugs me a bit about the Tomix signal is that you can clearly see the thin circuit board material for the "mast". It shouldn't be hard to hide wires for four LEDs in inside a tube. 

 

I'm tempted to look for non-working signals to add LEDs to or to seek a printed solution. For the time being I'll get one Tomix 4 light and one Tomix 3 light signal to experiment with and to see from an electronic point of view what I need. I think electrically the signal will be very simple as most of the work is done by my Digikeijs signal unit and relay. 

 

Edit: I ordered some of the Chinese signals from Evemodel to play around with. 

Edited by gavino200
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Here's an interesting site where a Japanese modeler has made his own signals from I think Green Max non-working signals. He also seems to have made his own automation system. The green max signals are on reserve so I ordered some. Nice that they're a kit, so the don't need to be disassembled.

 

He seems to be saying that he used blobs of glue as the light lenses. He doesn't say what LEDs he uses but they must be extremely small. He's using magnet wires to connect, and he's using brass tubing as the signal pole. 

 

I think I'll email iTrain to see if they have a solution for reversing the orange light singal apects of the british system to make it Japanese. 

 

I'll also need to find good Japanese search terms to look for Japanese modelers who have done this. There's no use reinventing the wheel. I'll start with machine translation, but if that's no good I'll ask someone who speaks Japanese. 

 

I found this guy's YouTube. It looks pretty good. 

 

 

Edited by gavino200
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I can't find the whole project, but this picture gives a good suggestion of the process. Different modeller. Ah, the result is here. (found it later)

 

I'm using "Model train n signal lights make" as a search term.  鉄道模型n信号灯が作る

 

This is interesting. Looks like someone tried to make their own signals from scratch, but it was a mess so they went with using the Tomix models.

Edited by gavino200
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These are the Chinese signals from AliExpress. This modeler has put them to good use.

 

Looks like another Green Max kit-bash. The green max kit seems to be a common go-to in Japan for this. Maybe that's why they're limited to 2 per household on HS.

 

And another, I think, but I'm not sure.

 

An odd product here. They're selling a 3D printed piece that's all but the signal head. Presumable to use the Chinese signal head with. Unfortunately that doesn't allow you to replace the mast with a hollow brass tube to hide the wires. The GM kit would be better. 

 

I can't tell what these signal heads are. They look pretty small. I'm guessing the Chinese signals.

Edited by gavino200
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19 hours ago, gavino200 said:

I'm tempted to look for non-working signals to add LEDs to or to seek a printed solution. For the time being I'll get one Tomix 4 light and one Tomix 3 light signal to experiment with and to see from an electronic point of view what I need. I think electrically the signal will be very simple as most of the work is done by my Digikeijs signal unit and relay. 

 

If you are going to use a separate signal unit, you'll not use the integrated circuit (embedded inside the track) that drives the Tomix signals but only the signals themselves, right? If it is so, you might find this article about Tomix signals investigation interesting. Google Translate works pretty good on it.

 

To point the main idea from the article, the Tomix signals all have just 4 wires that drive all the lights using different ways. 2-lamp and 3-lamp ones are just simple common anode multi-led, but starting from 4-lamp ones, it gets more complicated, for example the 4-lamp one with green at the bottom (5561 or 5571) uses some kind of square wave on pin 4 to light up both top orange light and green light during the logic. For 4-or-more-lamp signals, you'll need a driving unit that can supply power to the signals in both directions and, with exception of 4-lamp one with yellow at the bottom (5562), also that can supply a wave or some other intermittent power.

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I always wondered why the selection was so limited but with the mentality of temporary layouts, signalling is probably not considered. Most Japanese modellers I have encountered seem to like the trains moving around in a circuit, observed as they pass. The idea of operations, stopping at stations, waiting at signals, forming freight consists, seems a bit lost. Obviously sweeping generalisation as i’m sure there are many who try and recreate the real thing. I am yet to encounter any and when i’ve used the rental layouts and have shunted wagons back and forth i get some odd looks. The biggest emphasis seems to be on the trains as the star themselves, not mimicking the workings of a real railway. 

 

I do like the look of the Tomix semiphore signals.

I saw a small company that made a servo controller at the NEC Warley exhibition many years ago. Using servos, you could simulate the blade bounce of semiphore signals as well as the 2 part movement as the signalman switched point blades.

 

Some of the modern signals have 5 aspects. green, red and 3 yellows. One yellow used for a green and yellow aspect for an upcoming speed reduction. 

 

It would also be nice to have some repeating signals for reduced visibility. The ones which show either a vertical line, diagonal line or horizontal line with 3 lights. 

Proceed, Caution, Stop.

 

I’ve often seen these at stations. Kyushu lines tend to wind through the landscape so there are a lot of stations which precede a sharp bend. 

 

Perhaps there is a gap in the market as all other major model railway nations seem to have this area well covered. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Kamome said:

I always wondered why the selection was so limited but with the mentality of temporary layouts, signalling is probably not considered. Most Japanese modellers I have encountered seem to like the trains moving around in a circuit, observed as they pass. The idea of operations, stopping at stations, waiting at signals, forming freight consists, seems a bit lost. Obviously sweeping generalisation as i’m sure there are many who try and recreate the real thing. I am yet to encounter any and when i’ve used the rental layouts and have shunted wagons back and forth i get some odd looks. The biggest emphasis seems to be on the trains as the star themselves, not mimicking the workings of a real railway. 

 

Honestly that stuff isn't really my thing either. I just like how the lights look. I think they help bring the layout to life. The automation is much so that I can sit back and ejoy the layout in the background while I do other things. It also will allow me to run more trains at once, which is important to me. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Kamome said:

 

I do like the look of the Tomix semiphore signals.

I saw a small company that made a servo controller at the NEC Warley exhibition many years ago. Using servos, you could simulate the blade bounce of semiphore signals as well as the 2 part movement as the signalman switched point blades.

 

That's pretty nifty. I like the modern look personally, though. Maybe in the future I'll make a little old time layout. 

 

1 hour ago, Kamome said:

 

Some of the modern signals have 5 aspects. green, red and 3 yellows. One yellow used for a green and yellow aspect for an upcoming speed reduction. 

 

It would also be nice to have some repeating signals for reduced visibility. The ones which show either a vertical line, diagonal line or horizontal line with 3 lights. 

Proceed, Caution, Stop.

 

I agree, I'll like to add those to a curved platform sometime. I haven't seen any either.

 

 

1 hour ago, Kamome said:

 

Perhaps there is a gap in the market as all other major model railway nations seem to have this area well covered. 

 

 

I think there is. There are quite a few people out there making their own. It would also be nice if iTrain would support Japanese signals, though that's unlikely to happen, I think.

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17 hours ago, Madsing said:

New Greenmax 2217 Railway Signal Set (3-6 Light Signal) (4 Pieces) 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10839763

This looks like a good option to me. With the option to add LEDs (DYI, not provided). ¥1,360 for four signals is a good price.

I have other (non working) Greenmax signals (2594, 2596) and they look very good.

 

I just compared this to the other Greenmax non-working signals that I got (2185 and 2186), of which I bought a few - see below. The ones I bought are very thin. I think these ones that you just posted must be the Greenmax kits that were mentioned in some Japanese sites that I found.

 

I'm guessing that your kits - 2594 and 2596 aren't thin and flimsy like these below.

 

sVmh5TL.jpg

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