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Tenshodo T-Evolution - worth buying?


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The only thing that needs to be changed is bogies. Is it really that hard? Or the market for h0m is too small?

I think for the next piece of rolling stock, I'd order a conversion at some professional workshop.

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roadstar_na6

Just get a 3D printer and make your own bogies and gears. Narrowing down the axles themselves isn't that big of a deal I think 😄

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3 hours ago, Jaco3011 said:

Is it really that hard? Or the market for h0m is too small?

 

The issue is HOm would be just as out of gauge as HO is, HOj is about in between HO track and N/HOm track.  So while it wouldn't be "hard" to create a mechanism to work on that track, the market is incredibly small.  Remember most Japanese modelers use either renal layouts (which are HO/N) or temporary setups at home which almost always use HO or N track.  1/150 for N and 1/80 for HO was seen as a much more economical compromise that would allow modelers to actually run their trains using existing track and layouts.  

Remember new models are extremely expensive, new injection molds usually run about the price of a car for freight cars and can approach the price of some houses for locomotive models.  Its much safer to make a model for an existing popular scale/gauge than take a gamble on a gauge that has very limited appeal, epically for a budget model.  Some people convert models to HOj and sell them on yahoo auctions, usually at 10 to 20 times the MSRP of the unaltered model.

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14 hours ago, roadstar_na6 said:

Just get a 3D printer and make your own bogies and gears. Narrowing down the axles themselves isn't that big of a deal I think 😄


3D printer is currently outside of my budget. Axles themselves aren't that big deal, unless you make one wrong move while rasping the wheel parts. Also, the distance between flange and axle point is made according to RP24, NEM wheelsets are narrower - and current collection looks a little bit different. It's quite hard to find a wheelset of right diameter - I've seen 9mm and 11mm when looking for some to convert TaKi. Never tried to fit 3rd party wheelset into converted rolling stock.
 

 

11 hours ago, Kiha66 said:

 

The issue is HOm would be just as out of gauge as HO is


Wait a minute. Lets name 1/80  on 16,5mm track as J, 1/80 on 13mm as JM and 1/87 on 12mm as proper H0m. Proper H0m is really accurate: 12mm*87=1044mm. 1/80 on 12mm gives 12mm*80=960mm, which is not that accurate, but it's way better than J. J has 16,5mm*80=1320mm, that's close enough for 1372mm (4'6") gauge, but fits neither standard nor cape gauge.

If JM tracks and parts were easily available, I'd go for it.
 

12 hours ago, Kiha66 said:

which almost always use HO or N track

Makes perfect fit for Sm and TTm respectively.

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Jaco3011

I'm more and more convinced that this model was not worth buying. Not for diy conversion. I screwed it up :C

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Elektrain

Hi,

 

New here. I read the question for drive units/mechanisms. Have you looked into Halling's offerings?

 

https://shop.ferro-train.com/HallingShop/product/home/antriebstechnik/alle_antriebe

 

Manfred

 

I have some Kato Japan, KTM C57 models and also "Presse Eisenbahn" passenger cars in H0j. An old plastic Arii EF58 (EF18 body) awaits reverse modeling into a real model.

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Jaco3011
13 hours ago, Elektrain said:

I have some Kato Japan, KTM C57 models and also "Presse Eisenbahn" passenger cars in H0j. An old plastic Arii EF58 (EF18 body) awaits reverse modeling into a real model.

 

So you're the third person on this forum modelling in H0j.

 

I've never heard of Halling before. Thanks!

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marknewton
8 hours ago, Jaco3011 said:

I've never heard of Halling before


They mainly make model trams. I have a small fleet of them, they're well made with good quality mechanisms.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

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Jaco3011

If it's possible to change wheels to 10mm (they sell the part with wheelset and reductor around it), that's the best solution.


Can anyone remind me why aren't those models made properly at the first place?

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Jaco3011

Any ideas how to escape "affordable vs accurate" dichotomy are welcomed.

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Sadly life is tradeoffs much of the time and there is no free lunch (Ie escapes need to be paid for somewhere). In this case accuracy will either require a large investment in you making your own modifications or actual parts (and the large learning, time and potentially tool investment cost to do so) or pay a bunch of money to those that would do that for you. There just are not really reasonably priced commercial options as the market is so tiny, nothing really can help that. Or make due with the commercial options that are more affordable but not accurate.

 

at some point you just need to decide which option will be best for you, sadly life usually doesn’t let us out of choices like this

 

jeff

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Elektrain
Quote

Any ideas how to escape "affordable vs accurate" dichotomy are welcomed.

Either use a commercial offering and modify to the degree you are able to accomplish money wise and/or ability wise. Or built from scratch. My three coaches in H0j are the only ones. The other stuff is Kato 1:80. Until I can find the time and courage they have to do. Long live the compromise!

 

But a truck/bogie mechanism should not be that hard to do or modify. I once bought a cheap N-scale V200 German diesel to supply its trucks for an Lxd2 Polish diesel. That one came from a Polish body kit. Albeit it is still in an unfinished state. Meanwhile Bemo has come out with its model of that prototype. Which is way more than my parts have cost.

 

Manfred

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Martijn Meerts

Often it's not just a bogie change, or re-gauging the axles. I have some plastic H0j / 1:87 12mm / H0 1067 kits that are basically regular H0 with different axles. I also have a brass kit that was designed to be H0j, and there's quite a few differences in the frame details.

 

Affordable vs accurate is a bit relative. Personally I think the World Kougei and IMON kits are well worth the cost, and considering how much work goes into building these things, even the read to run versions are worth the cost. Remember that the ready to run ones are hand built using the kits, there are no machines mass producing the things. Even the kits themselves aren't mass produced. IMON has announced various plastic H0j models though, and those are going to be quite a bit more affordable.

 

But, other than rolling stock, there's also track. Even if you have H0j stock, there's very little accurate track available. You could use TT track, but sleepers would be out of scale, as would the spacing between sleepers. Rail height could be accurate though, depending on if you're modelling main line or branch line, and which period you're modelling. IMON does have H0j track, but they only have big radius curves. Of course there's options there as well, such as hand laying your track using actual wooden sleepers.

 

I think both H0j and H0e are fun scales to model in, especially when combining them, but it's never going to be cheap.

 

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disturbman
8 hours ago, Jaco3011 said:

Any ideas how to escape "affordable vs accurate" dichotomy are welcomed.


Look into N scale or switch to a less niche mix of scale and gauge?


 

 

😄

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Jaco3011
1 hour ago, disturbman said:


Look into N scale or switch to a less niche mix of scale and gauge?


 

 

😄

 

N scale has NO options for accuracy. Shinkansen are all 1:160, all the other are 1:150, even if regauged to Nm. H0m is still less niche than TT-9 and OJ.

 

33 minutes ago, roadstar_na6 said:

I'd advise Zm 😄

 

I haven't figured out how to make Zm tracks... yet.

 

@Martijn Meerts there are multiple H0m tracks available: Tillig, Peco, Bemo... No realistically long turnouts, but you make your own, so that's not a problem.

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Martijn Meerts
1 hour ago, Jaco3011 said:

there are multiple H0m tracks available: Tillig, Peco, Bemo... No realistically long turnouts, but you make your own, so that's not a problem.

 

None of those are based on Japanese prototype though, so you'd have to check whether or not they're accurate enough. Of course, Japan had various methods of laying track, so it might very well be one of those brands will work.

 

The period I'm modelling looks like it had 25 meter sections of track, each section having 45 sleepers evenly spaced, apart from the first 2 on each end. This is incidentally also what IMONs track is based on.

 

But, it very much depends on how accurate you want to be. I'm usually no river counter, but if I'm going through the effort of making sure my rolling stock is accurate, I'm definitely going to make sure my track is also accurate 🙂

 

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Jaco3011

In the earlier periods, it would be safe to assume the tracks are like british tracks.

Dang, I should have bought HoKi 2500 from RG Rokko instead of that tanker...
 

On 4/8/2021 at 6:18 AM, Elektrain said:

My three coaches in H0j are the only ones. The other stuff is Kato 1:80.


I assume that wagons were easy to regauge, but how about locomotives?

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Martijn Meerts

I don't think you can really assume track is like British track. The early stuff was imported from various countries, there were locomotives built in America, England and Germany at least, and then of course customised for Japanese track gauge.

 

But again, it really depends on how far you want to take things. Very few people will notice any difference between hand laid track and mass produced track. Even if they do they'll likely not know about the difference between track in various countries, and definitely not the correct spacing of ties/sleepers. In the end, it's your layout, and if you're happy with it, that's all that counts.

 

The only reason I'm personally going a bit crazy with the detail, is because the H0 stuff is my (very-)long-term super-detailed project. For shorter term running of trains and building stuff, I have my N-scale project. If H0 was the only scale I'd be using, I most likely would've started with some modules with mass produced track so I could run trains, and maybe then start working with hand laid track.

 

 

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Elektrain
3 hours ago, Jaco3011 said:

I assume that wagons were easy to regauge, but how about locomotives?

I bought them with that gauged wheelsets. But the trucks are actually wider so they can accommodate also H0 16.mm gauge wheelsets resp. the wheelsets could be widened. The description on the boxes say 1067 1:87 models. So the only thing not to scale is the truck's width.

 

Manfred

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