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Endo Type 923-3000 series Shinkansen Dr. Yellow in HO!!!


Need for High Speed

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Need for High Speed

http://www.mr-endo.com/lineup/plastic/densha/jr932t5.html

Endo announced this train a few months ago But I never got around to posting about it.

 

Exciting to see another shinkansen being produced in HO scale that's not brass. Although will cost over a grand (yikes) but I'm sure it will look fantastic but still 118000 Yen which is almost 1,100 usd is a bit much. So I'll wait till they are further along in the development prosses before placing an order. Although I have no idea where I will be ordering it from. If Dr. Yellow is indeed released in the spring, EMS shipping will hopefully be available by then.

 

I really Wish Tenshodo would do a rerun of their 500 series they haven't made them in over 10 years even just a small rerun would be nice. plus they can make them with multiple liveries like the hello kitty and Eva ones, that way they can sell more of them. Plus updated LEDs and electronics would be apreciated.

Edited by Need for High Speed
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Need for High Speed
2 minutes ago, Kiha66 said:

Very exciting.  I don't think I'll have the money to get one, but I'm sure they will be beautiful.

Yeah they will be. They said it will have two power cars. In 2021 I am not planning to buy any major high speed train sets in anticipation for the Endo Doctor Yellow T5, 7 car consist. Plus I will be the only one to have it at train shows since none of my friends have expressed much interest in buying one mainly due to cost. 

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At least that is a reasonably competitive price and sort of in line with brands like Tomix.  I’m sure it will sell well.

 

I never really understood the necessity of making smooth-sided modern express trains in brass, especially when they could be easily replicated in plastic.

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Need for High Speed
On 12/5/2020 at 9:34 PM, Kamome said:

At least that is a reasonably competitive price and sort of in line with brands like Tomix.  I’m sure it will sell well.

 

I never really understood the necessity of making smooth-sided modern express trains in brass, especially when they could be easily replicated in plastic.

I know right... Same here. lol

I don't see any point in brass but I know why people like it because its heaveir and has a solid feel. But for high speed trains that doesnt make as much sense because you want them to be kind of light so they can go faster. Most of the HO scale Shinkansen's seem to come from KTM which only does brass trains anyway and are insanely expensive and the detailing isn't the best or at least on their shinkansen models. Still wish Tenshodod would do a rerun of the JR500 series.

 

So yes, it was very wise of Endo to produce a 1/87 scale Type 923 Dr. Yellow shinkansen in plastic and yeah its kind of expensive but compared to brass trains or this recent limited edition KTX  SanCheon high speed HO scale train model from DetailedK in South Korea that is still available to order for 4,000 usd for the whole 10 car train.  You can find it here https://detailedk.com/ and more about the model and company here https://us.kompass.com/c/detailedk/kr123381/ Im not going to buy this because that price is insane. I don't care how good it is or if they used melted parts of the real trains to make the model. 4 grand is a little steep for me but compared to the Endo Type 923 for 1,100 usd which is just on the cusp of tolerable and intolerable price point for me. But everyone sees price value differently. 

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One thing you need to realize is price is directly tied to market size.   If they could sell a lot more, the price would come down.  But as a niche product in Japan, they won't have that many people interested in buying it -- not enough to drive the price down.  They have to recoup their R&D including all the moulds, etc. in addition to making a profit.  N scale is much more popular in Japan, and is one reason it is a lot cheaper.

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On 12/14/2020 at 9:56 PM, chadbag said:

One thing you need to realize is price is directly tied to market size.   If they could sell a lot more, the price would come down.  But as a niche product in Japan, they won't have that many people interested in buying it -- not enough to drive the price down.  They have to recoup their R&D including all the moulds, etc. in addition to making a profit.  N scale is much more popular in Japan, and is one reason it is a lot cheaper.


Any ideas how to support niches without preordering a few hundred of the item?

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Endo recently posted a couple of short videos of a running sample of their HO scale Dr Yellow on their blog... https://endokaihatsu.exblog.jp/

I have one on order and am definitely looking forward to my big yellow box of goodness arriving in coming months 🙂

Edited by Emmjay
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On 12/20/2020 at 12:45 PM, Jaco3011 said:

Any ideas how to support niches without preordering a few hundred of the item?


The answer is to make it yourself. You are asking someone else to take a loss to produce a small number of items at a reasonable price and them front all the production. Niche markets usually rely on a lot of hand made stuff that’s done on order singly or in very small batches by individuals. Small runs are more of a modern feature doing preorders or go fund me type things to help pay for the up front costs, but they will still be expensive. It boils down the fact that the costs of design, moulds, run set up, and overhead (and sometimes licensing) are the same if you are making 100 or 10,000 and that really increases the price of a small run as you need fo pay all that off. No way to get around that without the producer loosing a lot of money. Economics 101.

 

jeff

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With my current summertime job I'd have to work two months (circa 15 8-hour shifts a month) for this Shinkansen.

TaKi 1000 in H0m is under development.

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HO is becoming more popular in Japan due to its increasing accessibility but it’s appeal is spread across 2 or 3 opposing markets.  Those that want the Kato/Tomix type HO plastic RTR. Those that want to invest in more traditional brass models for 16.5mm track, then those that want true 1:87 HO for 12mm.

 

Japanese N gauge, by comparison, is generally one large market of customers wanting RTR plastic trains running on 9mm track, with some smaller groups who want brass or true scale. 

 

Its nice to see companies testing the market with new products. Kato have released new HO products over the last few years and seem to be producing more of their existing range than they used to. The growth is slow, but it is growing.

 

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And H0m doesn't have its cheap RTR part of market. I have two conditions: consistent scale and narrow gauge being actually narrow. There are no cheap models that meet both.

 

As long as there's no gauge conversion (J vs JM, OO vs P4, various O scales) cheap and expensive models are interoperable.

 

I'm not sure if I want to see japanese para-H0 market grow. Wouldn't it be better for it to shrink, so H0m could act as substitute?

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HOm is a niche market of the main HO market. Usually works the bigger the main market the bigger potential interest in the niche market (fed by the main market) as well as crossover of parts and other stuff from the main market to help the niche market. Niche market more on its own is going to be the worst situation for attracting more folks.

 

there may be many folks that would love properly scaled and gauged trains in HO, but changing what is already there is not going to be cheap or easy. Huge history and collections folks have are not going to want those to be obsolete, nor will companies want to give up all their investments they have done in traditional HO and abandon all their plans for the future and spend a huge amount of money redesigning and retooling. You would need a big market pop up for them to serve and even then it’s a very slow process. It’s chicken and the egg, not going to be a market until there are some products there to attract enough folks to buy and you need a big market there to spur companies into plowing money into producing stuff. Companies creating new markets with a new product without an existing market usually rely on the fact it’s something revolutionary and going to make them rich by being first, and thus attract venture capital. HOm isn’t revolutionary and folks generally don’t get rich making model trains so venture capital won’t be around…

 

go get stinking rich doing something and start your own HOm company with your bucks you don’t need, that could lay the egg that hatches the HOm chicken!

 

jeff 

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Need for High Speed

That's interesting stuff all good points. I personally don't mind the regular 1:80 scale Trains on 16.5 mm gauge. Since the shinkansens are on standard gauge anyway they are modeled to 1:87. But I do wish Kato would Finish their N700 HO project I would buy that Why they shelved it is beyond me. Although I think they would also do good with an E6 in HO. I wonder Why Tomix has not attempted any HO shinkansens.

 

In China things in the model world aren't looking too good they are being slow and no one has announced any new EMU models in HO recently despite me bugging them to produce the CR400BF-Z/C I would buy at least three sets of them to repaint in various fantasy schemes. Also the Chinese models tend to be much cheaper than the Japanese ones.

 

But I would love a model maglev that runs on real magnets Like the HSST Japan Airlines maglev HO model from the 1980s. Still searching for one so I can try to reproduce my own scale electro-megnetic maglev track and develop a working scale maglev system to run along side my High speed rail tracks. Won't be cheap or easy to do. 

 

Does anyone think a company will produce a motorized Monorail in HO?

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Need for High Speed
On 12/14/2020 at 3:56 PM, chadbag said:

One thing you need to realize is price is directly tied to market size.   If they could sell a lot more, the price would come down.  But as a niche product in Japan, they won't have that many people interested in buying it -- not enough to drive the price down.  They have to recoup their R&D including all the moulds, etc. in addition to making a profit.  N scale is much more popular in Japan, and is one reason it is a lot cheaper.

I beg to differ Endo said in one of their blogs they are nearly sold out on the pre orders for Dr Yellow. I look forward to receiving my set Hopefully the installation of DCC won't be too hard.

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Your example doesn’t undermine what @chadbagsaid. It just means that in their market, the Dr Yellow is popular as a model and that Endo more or less correctly identify the size of their market.

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I’m not hugely surprised they’ve sold through, and in @chadbag defence, the production run is probably way smaller than that of an N scale product. There’s only been a handful of Japanese manufacturers that have produced RTR plastic shinkansen in HO, Kato E5,   Zoukei Mura 0. Otherwise it’s a case of a heavy investment in a KTM or Endo brass option.

 

I wasn’t aware Kato had an HO N700 project but they did hint at an E6 when the E5 was released but it never materialised.

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I am honored, guys @disturbman @Kamome !

 

My comments were basic economics.

 

Look at what computers cost in the 80s, 90s, 2000s compared to today.  Today, computers today cost less than they did then (as a percentage of income to avoid changes in currency value) because the market is so much larger (today, [almost] every household has at least one computer, and some have many multiples -- back then most households didn't have a computer -- that has slowly changed over the last 30-40 years) that they can spread their R&D, fixed manufacturing costs, etc over a much larger market, which means their price to the customer can be lower.

 

 

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I have mine ordered, I seen that they are now Due in May/ June this year, Very excited.

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Ho Scale Railfan

I am glad to see that this particular project proved successful, even though I myself haven't bought one; the fact that these models have sold, let alone sold out on pre-order is proof that there is an existing market for Ho Scale Shinkansens. I look forward to seeing them run and if Endo Trains decides to make more of these sets in Ho Scale. I know they made the E5/H5 in brass, but this set proved that plastic models can be successful. (I'm personally hoping for either the E2, E3 or 400 Series).

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Need for High Speed
Posted (edited)

My Dr Yellow Shinkansen from Endo has shipped and will hopefully arrive in the next two weeks. Looking forward to my lucky yellow box of Shinkansen! The model is DC Only so it will take time to convert it to DCC. I feel that the model companies in Japan should make their trains more DCC ready. Although knowing that Japanese electronics are typically kept relatively simple hopefully this set won't be too hard to convert, Since it has driving lights in both cabs and two motor cars I may need 4 decoders to convert this thing. But Once converted I will be able to run it at train shows and club layouts with my other Shinkensens. I'll share some photos once it arrives.

 

 

 

On 7/6/2022 at 8:33 PM, Ho Scale Railfan said:

I am glad to see that this particular project proved successful, even though I myself haven't bought one; the fact that these models have sold, let alone sold out on pre-order is proof that there is an existing market for Ho Scale Shinkansens. I look forward to seeing them run and if Endo Trains decides to make more of these sets in Ho Scale. I know they made the E5/H5 in brass, but this set proved that plastic models can be successful. (I'm personally hoping for either the E2, E3 or 400 Series).

I agree, that's a good point but sadly I don't see Endo doing another rerun of the Dr. Yellow Type 923 Shinkansen. The reason why I think they even decided to make it in plastic is because some else has already produced Dr Yellow T5 3000 series in Brass, I think it was KTM could be wrong and the covid pandemic made the people running Endo feel that they could cheer up the miserableness of Japan with a yellow bullet train. Otherwise I doubt that they would have produced it. I used argue that there are plenty of HO modelers in West who want Shinkansen in HO to offset the smallish market in Japan. But, in reality Japanese companies are making products for the Japanese market and if a few foreigners happen to buy it so what that's not of concern to these Japanese manufacturers.

 

Endo did announce the E1 Shinkansen in HO recently but, it is a brass model and is insanely expensive like 8 grand or so in USD which is insane. Yes it's sold as a full 12 car set in one pack. I really don't like that many of these HO shinkansen models are very highly priced limited production run models that only rich people seem to afford. I understand that Japan has a different culture around model trains and scales then Westerners do because space is of premium in Japan so HO is seen as the scale you do when you can afford a large house or apartment. But Agree with you "HO Scale Railfan",  I do feel that HO does have its potential in Japan but the mentality seems to be that Brass is more durable which means quality. Whereas plastic is cheaper and seen as more lower end and companies fear people aren't willing to pay lots of money for it because the market is seen as niche by the manufacturers. Although as demographic shift and younger generations may find that the cheaper plastic stuff is just as good. I hope in the future more Shinkansens are produced in plastic with cheaper prices which opens up the hobby to a greater number of people who can't afford ten thousand dollar brass models but want to get into HO scale.

 

There are plenty of HO scale models in Japan its just that hardly any of them are Shinkansens even though the Shinkansens run on standard gauge allowing them to be scaled properly to the track. I really wish Tenshodo would rerun the 500 series in HO scale because it's such a popular train. I also wish that Kato would revisit the N700S and E6 shinkansens for HO scale. Meanwhile Tomix hasn't produced a single shinkansen in HO yet so maybe they will be next to produce a plastic shinkansen in HO. But still, the trains that will be produced in HO in the next 10 years beyond anyone's guess.

Edited by Need for High Speed
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Need for High Speed

Here are some photos I took of the Endo Dr Yellow for anyone who maybe be interested. Glad I pre ordered this they disappeared quick I could be one of like 3 people in the US to have bought one who knows lol.

Once I'm done enjoying it as is the next step will be opening it up and converting it to DCC I really wish Endo made their trains DCC ready. Which means I'll have to order new decoders as Doctor Yellow will have to be hard wired.

 

 

1347404345_20220713_103035Small.thumb.jpg.e9ae996df4da7944b9b05a38d1f19819.jpg574549394_20220713_104706Small.thumb.jpg.95456b16f38fd0826a75f09f79538b26.jpg

The full 7 car train comes as a single product no need for add one sets and other crazyness.

 

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for being Plastic this looks really good and its runs reasonably well. 

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The couplers are not energized hence why this thing will need 4 decoders!

This thing rools insanely well any slightly un even track it starts to roll away unless the power cars are attached.

However this is a bit of slack between the coaches but the couplers are easy to connect and disconnect which is a plus.

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Obviously every truck on the train draws power for the interior lights and the cars have arrows so you know which direction it faces when putting the train together.

The power cars fairly lightweight but you have two of them and despite not having any visible traction tires it's got pretty good traction. This train has very low belly clearance so any dramatic pitch in the track I can hear the cars scraping slightly I haven't really have any derailments because of this and seems to not really be an Issue unless you screw up you track real bad or have some weird crazy layout. 

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It's covered up in this photo but the power cars have mid frame motors with drive shafts leading to the trucks. I was unsure if they would go for the Kato design of truck mounted motors, but it seems they went for the Tenshodo approach of a central mounted motor with drive shafts this should make converting this a little easier Although the lights in the cabs maybe a bit tricky.

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The pantographs appear to be springed as they rise by themselves when you unhook them. My other Shinkansens pantographs don't have any springs in them, a lot of very tiny moving parts in these. The roofs have the anti slip textures as well and the lights around the pantographs light up to. A lot of lights on this thing.

 

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Over all Endo's Type 923-3000 series T5 EMU is competent. Was it really worth the price is debatable, but it's an HO shinkansen an oddity so it doesn't really matter.

Especially given this is the 4th type of Shinkansen to ever be produced in HO as a plastic model.

 

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Despite not being a revenue service train it still looks nice I think this will be popular at open houses and model train shows.

 

Also the video is now up. Hopefully people enjoy it as much as I did making it. LoL.

 

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Ooooh very pretty Nate!

 

hope to see if run.

 

jeff

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  • Need for High Speed changed the title to Endo Type 923-3000 series Shinkansen Dr. Yellow in HO!!!

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