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Kamome

Kato Hyper D Controller stopped working.

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Kamome

Has anyone got one of these and had any issues with it? 
 

I have very limited electrical knowledge when it comes to controllers. I opened the unit and it is more complicated than I expected. The power supply is still providing power but the power switch does not illuminate. I suspect either the main power switch or the reset switch has blown meaning no power is flowing to the rest of the controller.

 

I have a multimeter but need to do more study as to how to check whether things are working correctly. I’d prefer not to have to replace the whole unit as they’re not the cheapest of controllers. I’ll post some pictures when I have a moment.
 

I know there are some very experienced members who this kind of thing would be simple. 
 

Thanks in advance. 

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cteno4

To check the reset switch, unplug the power supply to the unit and use the continuity tester across the two leads of the reset switch. If no continuity then the switch is indeed blown (if pushing it all the way in does not fix this). You should be able to do the same with the power switch tracing the in and out leads and if power position does not give continuity across the switch then it’s now faulty (although rarer these go out, they do). 
 

if the multimeter doesn’t have the little beep continuity setting then just set it on resistance setting and 0 or very tiny resistance means power is going thru and if high value or - - - - reading means little or no power is going thru.
 

best of luck.
 

jeff

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Kamome

Many Thanks Cteno. That’s a great help

 

I need to brush up on my electronics knowledge. Glad I have this forum when these things occur.

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cteno4

You’re most welcome kamome, keep us posted and I’m sure someone can help trace the issue. Keep us posted!

 

jeff

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Kamome
Posted (edited)

Ooo So here is inside the controller. So I checked the power switch and reset button. The reset button shows continuity once it’s fully pressed in. The power switch has 4 cables coming from it. One grey wire comes directly from the power supply socket. The other 2 grey and 1 green go to a block on the circuit board. Despite trying a number of combinations of contacts I can’t get any continuity across the power switch, which doesn’t illuminate when I try to turn the thing on. So can I conclude that it is the power switch at fault?

 

Is there anything I should check

576FA1EF-4DED-455E-A1FC-C2311162836E.jpeg

F03711A0-006C-4805-86CA-BF255FE9254A.jpeg

046B10A2-0B45-441D-85DF-A50F6D7C2A33.jpeg

477B695D-A7A0-4B4C-BA3B-39732CB6F689.jpeg

Edited by Kamome

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cteno4

Ok do you get continuity across the reset button when you are not holding the button in? Or did it finally stay in by itself and keep continuity once you pushed it all the way in? If it’s the latter then you may not have just pushed it all the way in after it tripped and things may be working again if you fire it up. If it’s the former and you have to hold the button in to get continuity then the reset is blow and not resetting.

 

on the switch two of the wires are to power the light and two are just to turn one pole of the main power supply line on/off. The switch itself provides power to the internal light when the switch is in the ON position. My guess is the power for the light is the little white/green pair that are side by side and the other white wires with the one direct from the power feed is the main power wire to be turned on and off. Hard to tell without being able to really trace the other 3 wires and what they attach to. You did try continuity test across those two in both switch positions (can you tell the physical ON position on the switch, if not try continuity with it in each of the two switch positions) you might have had it on the OFF position when checking the continuity (I know that sounds dumb but I’ve done stuff like that many times in situations like this).

 

jeff

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Kamome

Thanks Jeff

 

The power switch has small 1 and 0 marks  to mark on and off. I checked the contacts with it in the 1 position but couldn’t get a continuity beep from my multimeter.

 

The reset button only gets continuity once I push the button in fully. Once it springs back out again I get no reading. 
 

It works slightly differently to the usual Standard Kato controller. In normal operation, you have to turn the power switch to on which illuminates the power light on a low setting. You then need to push the reset button which fully illuminates the power switch and then gives track power. If there is a short, the power switch resorts back to low illumination again. Currently the power switch won’t illuminate at all. So I’m thinking that the reset button should only show continuity once pressed. Is that correct?

 

The unit itself has a lot more wires than I had anticipated leading to the circuit board. The polarity switches, track power leads, and “speed” dial seem straightforward enough but not sure what witchcraft happens once the majority of leads hit the circuit board. 

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cteno4

Hmm. Did you try plugging it in and holding the reset button in for a bit to see if it would stay in, then turn on?

 

jeff

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Kamome
3 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Hmm. Did you try plugging it in and holding the reset button in for a bit to see if it would stay in, then turn on?

 

jeff

Yes, I did this at first but to no avail.

As the power light doesn’t light up at all anymore I wonder whether it’s that which had blown or something more complicated.

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cteno4

Hmm, sounds like both are not working. If you get continuity across the breaker with the button in then with power it should let power to the switch. 
 

I guess if you get to the point of no other solutions you could provide power directly into the unit, bypassing the breaker and the switch.

 

jeff

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stevenh
Posted (edited)

Kamome,

 

Thankfully this is only 12v... I was initially worried about playing with live mains-voltage!

Do you have any aligator clip leads? I'd go ahead and join the pins on the switch as per the expected connections when the switch is on.

If you follow ground, you should be able to work out the correct pins on the switch to bridge.

 

Actually, looking at the wiring again, it seems that ground goes straigh to the board and doesn't go to the switch?

Can you take another photo of the back of the switch?

 

OF COURSE, THIS IS DANGEROUS.

If you join the wrong wires, you'll reverse the polarity into the unit.

There should be a diode on the board to prevent damage, but I can't be sure.

Edited by stevenh
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Kamome

Thanks for your help Steven 

I’ll take some more photos this evening and post.

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Kamome
Posted (edited)

Here are some more photos of the circuit board. I have made a simple diagram as to where all of the wires lead to.DA31492A-87DD-47A0-8EF8-F8D8E0EA1E5D.thumb.jpeg.ca35e8df2450ef9d8dad224097dda73d.jpegA78E6E11-E8AF-4CD2-B989-CB017F268FE7.thumb.jpeg.6d70838030f38eaca1ea497b025aa1fa.jpeg

I asked in the Nogata train store and they are reluctant to look at/repair it in case it damages any of my stock so it may be a case of contacting Kato.

Hyper D.jpg

Edited by Kamome
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stevenh

Ok, so ground comes in from the DC plug and then straight to the board, black wire, second from the right.

+12v runs via the grey wire to the switch. My guess is that it then comes into the board via the right-most grey wire. 

Finally, the switch has two other wires!? Grey/green in the middle of that plug diagram that might get bridged when the switch is switched.

 

I'd therefore guess that the switch is a DPST. Grey->Grey and Grey->Green. But I can't confirm this at all. Does the switch feel broken?

The best thing you can do from here is:

  1. Unplug that white plug from the board and then insert a paper clip into the rightmost pin.
  2. Check for continuity between the grey wire coming out of the DC socket and that paper clip whilst throwing the switch.
  3. Take out that paperclip and get another one. Insert them into the middle grey and green, but don't bridge them.
  4. Put your multimeter onto each paperclip and throw the switch. Does it beep or record 0 ohms? (depending on your continuity testing method.)

 

Again, guessing the type of switch. Of course, if the switch is fine, then we've just proven that the circuitry is toast.

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Kamome

That’s a great help stevenh.

 

I will try out your suggestions when I get some time. Many thanks again for your help and information.

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Kamome

So I’m getting no reading between the dc socket and the right most pin in either position. 
 

When I tried between the middle green and grey wires, I got a reading but no continuity beep in both positions.

 

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stevenh
Posted (edited)

Just to confirm: with one lead from the multimeter on the grey wire at the back of the dc socket, and the other touching the pins on the back of the switch, you only get continuity on the actual wire that runs from the plug to the switch?

(Please make sure the white plug is disconnected from the main circuit board when you are testing this)

 

Regardless of the switch position, there is no other beep? Please try all pins on the switch with the switch in both positions.

 

My guess may have been incorrect as to the pairing... i.e. the grey wires going in to the board could be swapped over. Main 12v feed into the middle grey (or even green) wire and then bridged greys.

 

A really close photo of the back of the switch (or sides, if there's a serial/model number on it) would help!

Edited by stevenh

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Kamome

I really appreciate your help Stevenh.

 

So here’s the switch again. The switch is currently thrown in the off position.08B51D3C-5DC8-4A4B-B074-CF78707B4CAB.thumb.jpeg.8e5783671004221cc4e088a88cf2919d.jpegThe red labelled wire goes to the far right of the circuit board  block. The Green labelled ones goes to the DC connection and the Blue labelled ones go to the centre of the circuit board block.

 

I can’t see a serial number on the switch but it has:

CW-SC

9A125VAC

6A250VAC

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Glad Pingvin

Hi

 

It looks to me that the green labelled wire is the input to the switch, and the red label is the output, the two blue labelled wires control the led.

 

If you connect your multimeter from the green label to red label do you have continuity in either position? If you don't it looks like your switch is dead. If you do check for voltages on both terminals with respect to ground.

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Kamome

I get no continuity from the switch at all so I assumed it is indeed  the switch causing the issue. Annoyingly, as I'm not that well versed in electrics I may just bite the bullet and send to Kato. Sods Law says they'll replace the switch and charge me a lot more than if doing it myself. If I fudge it, then its at least 12.000yen for a new Hyper DX.

 

Interestingly, the DX did away with the reset button altogether and is apparently more friendly to some European models and those with capacitors.

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Glad Pingvin

If you aren't getting any continuity I would replace the switch, you would need to double check the part number but it looks like this should do the job...

 

https://uk.rs-online.com/mobile/p/rocker-switches/1251894/

 

Sorry I am in UK so it is UK distributor but you should find it in japan without too many problems...

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cteno4

 

6 hours ago, Glad Pingvin said:

 

It looks to me that the green labelled wire is the input to the switch, and the red label is the output, the two blue labelled wires control the led.


yes that’s my guess as well. Lighting or switch is separate from the simple spst switch for supplying power to the whole unit.

 

finding the same switch could be a chase.

 

jeff

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stevenh
Posted (edited)

OH! The switch has a light in it! I'm sorry, I didn't know this and I'm sorry for wasting so much time back-and-forth trying to determine the pins.

(If I'd even correctly read your first message, then it would've been totally apparent. SORRY 😞)

 

At this point, just bridge the pins marked by your green and red markings (maybe wrap with foil coated in sticktape) on the image and plug the DC power in.

Then just use the wall power switch to turn it on and off 🙂

 

Meanwhile, Glad seems to have found the exact switch replacement. Nice work!

Edited by stevenh

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Kamome
22 hours ago, Glad Pingvin said:

If you aren't getting any continuity I would replace the switch, you would need to double check the part number but it looks like this should do the job...

 

https://uk.rs-online.com/mobile/p/rocker-switches/1251894/

 

Sorry I am in UK so it is UK distributor but you should find it in japan without too many problems...

That’s spot on Glad Pingvin.

 

Looks like it’s a Japanese company so can hopefully locate the same one. Awesome find, thanks

 

I took @stevenh advice and bypassed the switch. Low and behold, the Power light came on and the controller outputs power again. I have also discovered that RS online also have a Japanese site so should be able to purchase the same switch.

 

I really appreciate everyone’s input and hopefully a quick soldering of a new switch will get it back to normal.

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Glad Pingvin

Happy to help, hopefully the switch cost you a lot less than 12000yen...

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