I need some help in finding a passanger car

[marknewton]

On 2/18/2020 at 9:04 PM, katoftw said:

DD51s ran in pairs. Needed two for the brakes. Since the brakes were weak compared to new ELs.

In what sense do you mean the DD51s brakes were "weak"? 
 

Mark.

 

[katoftw]

Not as strong.

Lesser ability to slow/stop.

[ben_issacs]

Jimbo,

Note that most sleeping car trains were not turned at the end of their journey, which means that in one direction the Hokutosei etc. would have its power car behind the locomotives and the green dining car trailing, but in the other direction the dining car was behind the locos and the power car trailed.

Both the dining car and the power car had illuminated head boards, to allow for this arrangement.

 So, if you wish to be different, you can run your Hokutosei etc. set with the green dining car up against the locomotives.

For those trains that had the dining car in the centre, the same applied for the power car and the car with the guard's compartment .

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.

 

 

 

 

 

[Kiha66]

On 2/18/2020 at 2:04 AM, katoftw said:

DD51s ran in pairs. Needed two for the brakes. Since the brakes were weak compared to new ELs.

 

Hey kato, where did you hear that the DD51's had issues with brakes?  I'd be interested to read about that.  I was under the impression that the locos would supply air to the reservoirs on each car and it would be the train brakes that would do most of the work, thus the loco wouldn't matter too much.  I had assumed the extra loco was for pulling power.

 

The only time I've heard of extra locos being added for braking power here in the US is in dynamic breaking situations.  Did any Japanese locos use dynamic brakes?

[Jimbo]

On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2020 at 3:20 PM, chadbag said:

 

If you want to be as close to prototype as possible, or just run it Jimbo's railway in the Japanese style, determines what locomotives you should be using.   Of course, any excuse to buy another locomotive or three works as well.

I wanted to stay close to what the loco an cars setup is,,but  Having a couple of locomotives that never get run,,  I have choices!! Ha

[Jimbo]

14 hours ago, ben_issacs said:

Jimbo,

Note that most sleeping car trains were not turned at the end of their journey, which means that in one direction the Hokutosei etc. would have its power car behind the locomotives and the green dining car trailing, but in the other direction the dining car was behind the locos and the power car trailed.

Both the dining car and the power car had illuminated head boards, to allow for this arrangement.

 So, if you wish to be different, you can run your Hokutosei etc. set with the green dining car up against the locomotives.

For those trains that had the dining car in the centre, the same applied for the power car and the car with the guard's compartment .

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you Bill   I sometimes change things around, just to break it up some,  I want to use a EF66 for the engine, but I think I have the correct one for it ??  I do believe they used a EF81? with the shooting star on the sides?? which I have,,, ha I need to check into that some more,,

[ben_issacs]

Folks,

Kiha66's comments on train brakes are quite correct.

The Westinghouse or equivalent air braking system used in Japan has brakes on every vehicle, so problems with the loco brakes should not affect the braking power of the train.

Double heading on the Hokutosei etc. is required for the heavy grades between Sapporo and Hakodate on the old Hakodate Main Line.

Regards, 

Bill,

Melbourne.

 

[marknewton]

On 2/20/2020 at 4:39 PM, Kiha66 said:

I was under the impression that the locos would supply air to the reservoirs on each car and it would be the train brakes that would do most of the work

That's correct. Best practice for running loco-hauled passenger trains is to make all brake applications with the automatic brake, and bail the independent brake on the loco off to keep the slack action to a minimum for a smooth ride and stops.

 

The 24 series cars were fitted with a form of electropneumatic brake, incidentally, so their braking performance was improved over cars fitted with conventional automatic brake.

 

On 2/20/2020 at 4:39 PM, Kiha66 said:

The only time I've heard of extra locos being added for braking power here in the US is in dynamic breaking situations.  Did any Japanese locos use dynamic brakes?

 

I'd have to check regarding diesel electric locos, but I know that the diesel hydraulics had hydrodynamic braking. Very useful on a freight train, but not recommended for passenger trains.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[nah00]

On 2/18/2020 at 2:10 PM, Jimbo said:

Thanks   I thought of the  DD51s  I do have one but its red,,   I was planning on using a EF66,, but I think I read a EF79? or EF510? Have two EF79s,an a EF510,, I guess its up to my preference?   I guess anything go's as long as it pulls the train at a good clip??    Tracking shows my car set some place in NY as of yesterday!!   Thanks everyone one for all the info!! 

 

Using a red DD51 with a blue Hokkaido one (or even two red ones) isn't entirely off of the mark, it did happen from time to time. When the train needs to move you gotta use what locomotives you have on hand. They did use an EF81 from Ueno to Aomori before they started using EF510s, it was this one:

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10222889

Edited February 26, 2020 by nah00

[katoftw]

On 2/20/2020 at 3:39 PM, Kiha66 said:

 

Hey kato, where did you hear that the DD51's had issues with brakes?  I'd be interested to read about that.  I was under the impression that the locos would supply air to the reservoirs on each car and it would be the train brakes that would do most of the work, thus the loco wouldn't matter too much.  I had assumed the extra loco was for pulling power.

 

The only time I've heard of extra locos being added for braking power here in the US is in dynamic breaking situations.  Did any Japanese locos use dynamic brakes?

Unsure where i read it. Sometime in the last 8 year on the interwebz. But so much misinformation on the interwebz. But the earlier explanation seems more plausable to me after reading it.

[lighthouse]

In the first year of Hokutosei (1988) you can use 2x red DD51 or 1x red + 1x blue DD51 but it was a short time between Hakodate and Sapporo. I think between Ueno and Aomori I saw a photo of Hokutosei with an EF71 and ED78 in www. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by lighthouse

[ben_issacs]

Folks, 

I can remember seeing a shot somewhere of the Hokutosei Yume Kokan running reverse (with the green dining car behind  the loco), with a red elec. loco at its head, possibly an EF 81?

Regards, 

Bill,

Melbourne.

 

 

[lighthouse]

You mean a photo like this?

 

https://blog.goo.ne.jp/c6202_001/e/7c4daa33d54609d3b4cfeaa2fb735bed

http://ed75.la.coocan.jp/d-archive/ed79/m/79002_20010722.jpg

 

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by lighthouse

[katoftw]

That was the original consist wasnt it?

[ben_issacs]

Lighthouse,

That shot wasn't the one that I saw, but obviously the same train with the EF 81.

The explanation was useful.

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.