Japanese passenger car accommodation classes.

[ben_issacs]

Folks, 

When did JNR change from first, second and third class passenger accommodation to the present day Green car and Ordinary car classifications?

Regards, 

Bill,

Melbourne.

 

[bikkuri bahn]

The three class designation was eliminated in 1960 (concurrently with the Hato and Tsubame ltd. express services on the Tokaido Main Line changing from loco-hauled to emu) , subsequently the first class designation was replaced with the green class designation in May, 1969.  

Edited June 28, 2019 by bikkuri bahn

[ben_issacs]

bikkuribahn,

If the three class designations were abolished in 1960, and the Green Car class only came in in 1969, what were the designations between 1960  and 1969?

Regards

Bill, 

Melbourne.

 

[miyakoji]

I'm not sure what the marketing names were, but the cars had i, ro, or ha in their numbers.  Ro and ha are still used.  Ha indicates a standard class car, such as kumoha, a motored car, with driver's cab, with standard class seating.  Ro would be a green car, such as saro, an unpowered car, no cab, with green class seats.

 

There are a few cars around with the 'i' classification, for example JR West still has MAITE 49 2, built in 1938.  It was used at various times on the Fuji, Hato, and Tsubame services.  For locomotive pulled cars, ma indicates it was 42.5 to 47.5 tons, i is the (old) first class, and te indicates it has an observation deck.  JR Kyushu's Seven Stars formation has 'i' cars in it.  I was looking around for the designations of the JR East E5 Gran Class cars, but it looks like they don't carry the katakana prefixes of conventional rolling stock.  I think some older shinkansen stock had the prefixes, although I may be getting my wires crossed.

 

 

Picture of MAITE 49 2: https://www.westjr.co.jp/press/article/2018/03/page_12069.html

 

There's this pinned thread that discusses a lot of this:

 

[railsquid]

32 minutes ago, miyakoji said:

 I was looking around for the designations of the JR East E5 Gran Class cars, but it looks like they don't carry the katakana prefixes of conventional rolling stock.  I think some older shinkansen stock had the prefixes, although I may be getting my wires crossed.

 

 

I don't recall seeing the prefixes on any Shinkansen, too tired to look further but I assume this MicroAce 200 series has a protoypical number:

 

Microace 200 Series Shinkansen by Rail Squid, on Flickr

[EdF]

Twilight Express Mizukaze uses I in the names of the cars. KiSaINe and KiITe

Edited July 4, 2019 by EdF

[ben_issacs]

Folks, 

Yes, I (First), Ro (second) and Ha (Third) were the previous class designations.

Before the War the cars had White, Blue and Red lines in that order along the  car sides for easy identification.

During the War, red lines only were used, maybe the two higher classes were abolished because of wartime austerity needs.

During the post-war Allied Occupation, special cars for Allied personnel only had Pale Green lines, this might have been the origin for the present day Green cars.

The end platform observation cars  used on some of the heritage trains were First class, and are still classified as such, and are cars in some of the fancy tourist trains as per EdF's posting.

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.

[ben_issacs]

Folks, 

I've come across a reference to 'Special Second Class', which may have been the classification used between 1960, abolition of the three classes, and 1969, adoption of 'Green Class'.

Don't know what the Katakana characters for this classification were, photos of cars during this period could give this info.

Regards, 

Bill,

Melbourne. 

 

[bikkuri bahn]

Special second class was a designation for second class stock with individual reclining seats, to differentiate from regular seating.  Passengers were charged extra on top of the second class premium for this, thus the "special".  Rolling stock with such seating were typically those in the "suro" and "naro" series.  The term was used from 1950 to 1958.  

Later example (in green car configuration). Very North American RR interior style (bottom pic):

http://moving.la.coocan.jp/nightpc6.html

 

[ben_issacs]

bikkuri bahn, 

Thanks for the explanation of 'Special Second Class'.

But this still doesn't answer, what was the designation of what was 'First Class' between 1960, when First, Second and Third were abolished, and 1969, when

"Green'  class was introduced?

I wonder if 1969 for 'Green' is a typo?

On a keyboard, the '9' and the '0' are adjacent.

Could someone , intending to type '0', hit the adjacent key by mistake and typed '9'.?

Regards, 

Bill,

Melbourne.

 

[bikkuri bahn]

The designation was "first class" with the number 1 along with a color band (blue or green) along the side of the car.   The 1969 date is not an error, it is historical fact. 

http://www.jnrsite.net/PC/35k/htm/oro3611.htm

[marknewton]

I know we’ve discussed this before, but on post-war cars, what did the coloured bands signify?

 

Thanks,

 

Mark.

[chadbag]

2 hours ago, bikkuri bahn said:

The designation was "first class" with the number 1 along with a color band (blue or green) along the side of the car.   The 1969 date is not an error, it is historical fact. 

http://www.jnrsite.net/PC/35k/htm/oro3611.htm

 

So the cars were numbered more along the European style where the number is the class, and not the car number?

[bikkuri bahn]

As far as I can gather from sometimes disjointed sources on the web, the blue band (blue #1) was used until 1961 for the (new, formerly second class) first class rolling stock, after that it was light green (light green #6).

 

This site details the changes from the Meiji Era.  The banding is called "obi" (帯), like the obi used on kimono.

https://www.jnrpc.com/P-train/PC-COLOR.html

[bikkuri bahn]

5 minutes ago, chadbag said:

 

So the cars were numbered more along the European style where the number is the class, and not the car number?

Yes.  This is during the era of variable train consists, unlike the fixed formations of the present modern railway, so it was important for consists to be easily identifiable for passengers looking for the carriage their booked seat was in.  

[ben_issacs]

Folks, 

So, 'First Class' designation survived the 1960 changes until 1969, when it became 'Green' class.

Also, interesting that the symbol for 'Green' cars was the four leaved clover, I wonder why that was selected?

Regards, 

Bill,

Melbourne.

 

[bikkuri bahn]

The four leaf clover is a sign of good fortune, so the implication was paying for such a service would invite luck or the like upon the customer. It was very much an aspirational marketing move.  You have to remember even as late as 1969 riding a limited express train or even more so the shinkansen was a rare event for the average person. I remember riding in green class with my grandfather in the late 1970's and being a rather special occasion- it was a space typically only older adults used- having children sitting in such a car was frowned upon unless carefully supervised.  Now you travel in green class (or even GranClass!) and you see families with their screaming children in tow ruining the supposed quiet you paid extra for.

Edited July 16, 2019 by bikkuri bahn

[ben_issacs]

bikkuri bahn,

Surely the four leaf clover legend would not have had any meaning in Japan at that time, and do they actually have clovers of any leaf formation growing there?

It's really a Western tradition, and probably originally suggested by someone in the Occupation Forces who was involved with the railway operations during  that time.

Or someone in JNR Public Relations has read about the tradition and decided to appropriate it!

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.

 

[cteno4]

Maybe way before that as clover was introduced in the 19th century to japan and I think it’s been a good luck symbol for quite a long time, not just since wwII.

 

jeff

[ben_issacs]

Jeff,

What would the Japanese name for clover be?

The nearest that I can get for the English word is 'Krofer'.

Maybe 'Krover' but the Kata-Hira 'V' is only of fairly recent introduction.

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.

 

[cteno4]

Beats me I don’t speak Japanese. Sure one of them Japanese speakers here can tell you.

 

jeff

[railsquid]

Usually transliterated as "kurobaa" (クローバー).

 

See e.g. https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/四つ葉のクローバー