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jasona2z

Track question

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jasona2z

Hi All,

 

just a quick question about T-trak spacing.

 

This week I purchased some pre-made T-trak modules, and this is how the single track was spaced when it arrived. 

 

post-4092-0-87440800-1487138375_thumb.jpeg

 

However, I plan to use Kato double track, but am now confused....

 

Im going to be following the Australian t-trak standards, and assume the module with the two lines of single track, are spaced incorrectly?

 

Thanks,

 

Jason. 

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cteno4

Jason,

 

There are two Ttrak specs. The first have the two tracks right next to each other at 25 mm separation. This is the original "standard" spacing that was first created for Ttrak more for small trains and trams. The biggest issue with the alternate spacing is it's not the standard separation of kato curves so you need to do some odd swinging, non parallel curves to do the corners. These are actually sort of prototypical for some streetcar tracks but not really standard for regular railways and are a pain in the ass to cut road segments out for if you want to make pavement between and around tracks. Standard spacing was very widely used in Japan up until lately.

 

Later folks created the "alternate" spacing of the standard kato unitrak 33mm curve spacing increments to make life easier on the corners and run larger trains. Alternate spacing has become the predominant spacing for Ttrak here in the us and also in Australia from what I've seen. More info on Australian Ttrak guidelines here

 

http://t-trak.nscale.org.au/guidelines

 

What you got looks really off. I would check with the producer of the modules to see what's going on here. Also check with your local club as well to verify everything if you plan on running with them or larger regional setups.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

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cteno4

The only other thing I can think of here is if he sells modules that have the 49.5 mm spacing that you get for a siding or platform bumpout and you got one of those.

 

Jeff

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IST

 

Im going to be following the Australian t-trak standards, and assume the module with the two lines of single track, are spaced incorrectly?

 

 

Yes, it is spaced incorrectly. But I agree with Jeff that maybe it was part of a station modul with platform between the tracks and this is the reason of the huge space.

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kvp

The Kato platforms use 33 mm spacing, which means one platform occupies the space for one track, while this one is 33 mm short. On the other hand, if you use the original tracks next to each other (tram) spacing of ttrak, then these two tracks are just right for a nice Kato island platform.

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gerryo

Thanx, Jeff, for the t-track guidelines link.  This gives me something else to compare my t-track-z dimensions to.  Most of my modules compare quite close to Australia's dimensions, except that I cut an extra mm from all lengths to allow easier connection of the layouts.

 

gerryo

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cteno4

gerry,

 

those are the Australian ones. pretty much the same as the old lee us ones.

 

the lee specs and site are being maintained as well (she passed away a few years back).

 

http://ttrak.org

 

most clubs basically follow it but there are a few factions that have minor differences in wiring colors, connections and such, but most of the basic module sizes and track layouts all match up for universal running and details can get worked out at shows on wiring and such with adapters or wire cutters and tape if need be...

 

jeff

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cteno4

sorry yes the 49.5 is the siding using a #6 point and 718 w/o the spacer 62 for the platform. track spacing looks to be around that on that module. sorry posted that just before bed and not all that clear!

 

jeff

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westfalen

Yes, way out.  33mm is the correct spacing, don't know how they would have come by the wider spacing.  As I always tell newcomers to T-TRAK, follow the guidelines and you will have no problems.

 

Something also worth mentioning from my experience is that some of the double track Unitrack sections are slightly shorter than advertised, only fractions of a millimetre but enough over the length of a module to not leave enough overhang to join the modules properly.

 

BTW I am the QLD T-TRAK rep mentioned on the Australian T-TRAK page.

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jasona2z

gerry,

 

those are the Australian ones. pretty much the same as the old lee us ones.

 

the lee specs and site are being maintained as well (she passed away a few years back).

 

http://ttrak.org

 

most clubs basically follow it but there are a few factions that have minor differences in wiring colors, connections and such, but most of the basic module sizes and track layouts all match up for universal running and details can get worked out at shows on wiring and such with adapters or wire cutters and tape if need be...

 

jeff

 

Hey Jeff, Thanks for the info.

 

Yes, way out.  33mm is the correct spacing, don't know how they would have come by the wider spacing.  As I always tell newcomers to T-TRAK, follow the guidelines and you will have no problems.

 

Something also worth mentioning from my experience is that some of the double track Unitrack sections are slightly shorter than advertised, only fractions of a millimetre but enough over the length of a module to not leave enough overhang to join the modules properly.

 

BTW I am the QLD T-TRAK rep mentioned on the Australian T-TRAK page.

 

Hi westfalen. 

 

I'm sure I'll have lots more t-trak questions in the future, good to know who is in the know around here. 

 

Regarding the double track. I like the appearance of the concrete ties more, but have heard that it is slightly shorter. I haven't decided what I want to do about that yet. It would be awesome if unitrack had wood tie and concrete tie options for single track. 

 

 

 

 

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kvp

Regarding the double track. I like the appearance of the concrete ties more, but have heard that it is slightly shorter. I haven't decided what I want to do about that yet. It would be awesome if unitrack had wood tie and concrete tie options for single track. 

You mean like this? http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10136444

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cteno4

its fairly new and takes money to set up dies for them all. its mainly meant for station stretches for use with all the double concrete tie sections available. its big production and inventory costs with something like track as they need to keep it in stock and stock a lot of different pieces and this gets expensive, so i think they tend to be conservative on branching into whole new lines, hence only mainly double track concrete tie first.

 

jeff

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katoftw

My 248mm double pieces measure 248mm.  My 62mm double pieces measure 61mm.

 

My concrete tie 248mm single pieces measure 247.5mm.

 

I haven't measured any of my single wooden tie pieces.  But I'm sure there would be variances in those also.

Edited by katoftw
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Rod.H

I've picked up some double track unitrack & noticed some length variance on the straights when compared to the same length single straight. So is length variance & electrical fun with the crossover (single & double) the main issues with using it on a T-trak module?

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Cat

I have the new Kato 2020 catalog in hand, and they still only list the 248mm single straight track with concrete ties.  Grumble, grumble.  It looks like we'll just go with the wooden ties for our T-Trak modules; it would eat up too much time cutting custom length sections out of 248s.

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katoftw

The double track concrete tie pieces are a few mm shorter than the single track wooden tie pieces.

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Cat
6 minutes ago, katoftw said:

The double track concrete tie pieces are a few mm shorter than the single track wooden tie pieces.

 

We want to connect with others for T-Trak and that require 33mm spacing.  Kato has widening sections, but those have an S-curve and eat up 310mm each.

 

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cteno4

Cat what exactly do you need here?

 

jeff

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Cat

I was hoping to use track with concrete ties for our JR East mainline double track across 3 triples and 1 single T-Trak modules  with some crossovers worked in.  But it needs to be 33mm track spacing.

*****
ahh, maybe we could do it with Tomix PC track and Kato connectors at the outer ends...

Edited by Cat

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cteno4

Cat, 

 

untrak is easily cut down as needed, just clip out a section of roadbed in the center and slide ends together, glue and snip rails to length. You can also make spacing transitions from Tomix to Kato by putting multiple slices in the roadbed to turn it into flex track.

 

jeff

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Cat

Thanks Jeff.  Do you know what the spacing is making a single crossover with a pair of Tomix 541-15 turnouts?

In the catalog, those look like they would connect at less than the usual Tomix 37mm.  And they have those turnouts with synthetic sleepers ❤️ 

 

That's such a wide curve, the B-Train Shorties shouldn't have any problem with the S-curve going through.

 

Edited by Cat

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cteno4

Sorry only played with tominix mini points. You can just carefully cut the same amount off both points diverging track to get down to 33 spacing if needed. Just have to use your own insulated joiners and probably cut pockets for them in the roadbed. Easy to test the s curve with btrains  if you have any 15 degree curves to simulate. Btrains do some odd things at times. Shorter the train the better for any odd stuff. Also moving from rapido couplers helps as well as they tend to slinky some with changes in track like points and curves with longer trains.

 

many points out there on concrete slab are still wood in places. We had a thread on that somewhere.

 

jeff

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Sheffie
9 hours ago, Cat said:

Do you know what the spacing is making a single crossover with a pair of Tomix 541-15 turnouts?

In the catalog, those look like they would connect at less than the usual Tomix 37mm. 

 

I’ve been trying to find a link to an article I read with a design overview and comparison of Finetrack vs Unitrack. I remember it covered this sort of question in some detail. 

This link seems like a copy of the same thing. I think the diagrams here might be what you need. 

 

http://trains4africa.co.za/?p=3961

 

Edited to add:

Don’t forget that you can always download a free track editor and experiment with pieces from any manufacturer’s track lineup. SCARM has a large selection, that I know of. 

Edited by Sheffie

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Cat

Thanks Sheffie.  I didn't see a specific note on the spacing of the Tomix 541-15 there.  But that article referenced Trainweb, and first hit on a quick googling turned up this article just on Tomix track with a clear illustration that a pair of 541-15s does yield 37mm spacing.

http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/track/snippets.htm

http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/track/p541.jpg

Going back to scouring through the Kato catalog, the 20-230 and 231 single crossover pieces look like a winner.  These are 33mm spacing and the combined concrete and synthetic sleepers are very pretty.  Working with the lone length of concrete straight single track means we'll have to cut somewhere between 10–14 custom lengths depending on how things line up on both sides of the crossovers (grumble).

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