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small Japanese layout


Blobby

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Claude_Dreyfus

I have used Japan Model Railways a few times before...they are very good. I'm afaid I am a little late to the party here, but the majority of my collection is from Hobbysearch. I have also used Plaza Japan a fair but and have stuff on order from Loco1Hobby.

 

If you like Kato stuff, TrainTrax are very good...and are UK based.

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have already used traintrax, very impressed with the service - my bits from Modelbahn were apparently delayed by German postal strike

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Tomix track arrived today, must say I like the lower profile of this track compared to Kato

Edited by Blobby
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OK still pondering small layout. I'm still trying for the impossible small, layout where I can watch the trains go round but also with somw operating potential

 

Been very inspired by these two 

(I love the station on this one)

 

So I've been having a ply around with a dogbone as in first video but keeping to the idea that kvp kindly did for me

 

This is what I've come up with so far

 

post-3155-0-18888800-1442507414_thumb.jpg

post-3155-0-54599300-1442507457_thumb.jpg

 

I really like the idea of a viaduct and viaduct station but having watched JAM2013 auto electric railway video I'm not so sure as I was

 

As ever comments and suggestions very welcome

 

 

Edited by Blobby
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Hi

 

I've been using SCARM to play around with Tomix finetrack track plans and have noticed a problem. If I construct an oval using 280 radius curves and put a curved 280/317 point in then it doesn't join correctly (see image). Is this a problem with SCARM not rendering the point correctly or is this actually a problem with the Tomix curved point itself? (I think the latter unlikey but just checking!)

 

Thanx

post-3155-0-70626800-1444553881_thumb.jpg

Edited by Blobby
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Curved points? I have encountered this problem too in my layout plan. I've got something like 4-5 points where they don't join nicely... I do hope those are minimal millimetres and that the actual tracks should be able to join just fine...

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I wonder if that's a "bug" in SCARM, I had a similar issue. Assumed it was something to do with the points having a different geometry. Must go and compare the ones I have with curves of the same radii.

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I wonder if that's a "bug" in SCARM, I had a similar issue. Assumed it was something to do with the points having a different geometry. Must go and compare the ones I have with curves of the same radii.

 

A 280 curve laid over the 280 part of the point seems to match; I don't have any free 317 curves apart from some viaduct ones on the layout; they seem to match the 317 part of the point pretty well too. The definitive test would be to create a quarter-circle of each, draw the outline then replace one of the curves with the point, but I can't be bothered right now. But it does look to me like the point should work as a drop-in replacement for either curve.

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Here is the library data: 

# Curved Arrow Rails

TCurvedArrowRail2|N-CPR317/280-45|1248|2|266.673|45|296.907|45|16.525|0|10.365
TCurvedArrowRail2|N-CPL317/280-45|1249|2|266.673|45|296.907|45|16.525|1|10.365

TCurvedArrowRail2|N-CPR317/280-45|1278|2|266.673|45|296.907|45|16.525|0|10.365
TCurvedArrowRail2|N-CPL317/280-45|1279|2|266.673|45|296.907|45|16.525|1|10.365

 

My problem is that if you put down a 280 on the outer and a 317 on the inner curve, they won't meet. This means this turnout has a strange geometry as on this picture (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/matuya/tomix/girder317280-15_l.jpg) they are matching the 280 and 317 geometries on the outside, but still meet. Pure 280 and 317 turnouts could not do this, only with separate inner and outer curved points. Can anyone who understands this explain it for us?

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On any curved turnouts that I have used, and I have used quite a few especially on Z scale, the larger of the two radii had to be on the outside of the turnout.  Otherwise there would not be sufficient space for the smaller radius track.

 

Your drawing shows both radii starting from the same place.  This would not be possible if you were wanting to have the new track at the proper spacing from your Oval

 

On looking at your layout drawing, I wonder why you are putting in a curved turnout.  Why not use a number 4 turnout and then a curved 317 immediately after.  Would that not get you to the same place?

 

gerry

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The reason for curved turnouts on layouts is usually longer platform lengths. But the problem remains, as the Tomix turnouts seem to work as a crossing and as two standard curves. I can't really imagine how did they do it and the scarm version is clearly faulty.

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Hi KVP

 

Exactly right! - I've been playing around with the plan you produced for me and trying to make one of the station tracks a loop and keep it as long as possible. I know the ramp up to the upper station is quite steep but the idea is to have that bit covered over. The inner loop I'm hoping to make a bit of a 'meandering' tram track.

 

post-3155-0-30190100-1444730243_thumb.jpg

Edited by Blobby
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Still playing around with layout designs - I've been looking at one of the Kato plans

 

plan03-6_image.jpg

 

Its still pretty much what I'm after but with a touch more operational interest, I would probably substitute the high level station for a viaduct station.

 

I'm trying at the moment to redraw it for Tomix track as I have a fair bit of Tomix track already and I prefer the lower profile of it.

 

Anybody any suggestions or comments about this layout?

 

I notice it has a reversing loop which I have never used before, what would I need to do electrically particularly if I decide to go down the DCC route

 

All comments very welcome!

  • Like 1
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It's a nice layout for trains with no more than 4 cars. Personally i would flip the front station around from right to left, so trains coming from the hill could go in without reversing by going around once the loop. There is no through station, so if you don't want to reverse in the tunnel this is the only way to go from a to b. (the tunnel is used as a scenic barrier to represent the rest of the network)

 

If you want to use the reversing loop with dcc, then you only have to put the feed points to the right side double track and the tomix turnout at the bottom of the ramp will take care of the polarity of the hill section.

 

For analog operation with tomix turnouts, i would also put the feed points to the right. The left hand loop entry turnout will take care of the polarity of the upper part and i would also isolate the crossover (disable the power routing between the parallel tracks) and bypass it in the through direction, so the outer loop controller could remain independent from the inner tracks.

 

You will need 9 point control levers and 2 controllers or a dcc central.

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Mudkip Orange

Personally i would flip the front station around from right to left, so trains coming from the hill could go in without reversing by going around once the loop.

 

I think the idea is a descending train immediately takes a left into the reverse loop, circuits through, uses the double crossover to switch to the oval, then makes an additional circuit before going into the lower station.

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Oh, i see it now. It makes the short track connecting the loop turnout with the crossover not really needed in service.

 

Fortunately with tomix turnouts, the loop doesn't need loop controller circuits, so it can be left as is with no extra costs.

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A while back I actually thought of doing that layout.  The bottom lower section would be urban/cityscape, and the upper section (made a little larger) would be rural/onsen town area.

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Blobby,

 

That's a really good layout selection as it appears to cover most aspects of a layout. I am in the process of doing some layouts and this looks like a good option. The only thing I see is adding a hidden yard under the mountain. This will allow you to switch 3 different trains coming out of the tunnel to the left. This could simulate different trains passing through the town. That's a good selection

 

Here is some information I gathered if it can help you or anyone else.

 

http://www.katomodels.com/unitrackplan/plan/plan03-6.pdf  the layout drawing

 

plan03-6_image.jpg

This is the build list for this layout. I have broken down the items into 5 parts. The first 3 are grouped more so as

track items but divided by major cost groups. If you have a track box you might have the bulk of the track stashed away. 

along with the electrical tracking. that can save you almost half of the projected cost.

 

The next 2 pats are the structures. They cover the other half of the cost. But you might be able to cut that in half. There are

two types of structures. Rail and Urban. You can get away with dividing that into to stages. That is what I'm planning to do. The first half of the structures financing will go the the rail portion. I'm going to leave the Urban building for later but make it look like it land being developed. It is easier to do it that way then to leave it undone. I think cutting out square lot patched with dead grass and square dirt with construction scenes where the building is suppose to go is the temporary answer. A funds become available I'll add the buildings. that way the layout will always look finished. 

 

In any case this can give you a cost factor to the project. I think the paper buildings can be used to.

 

TRACK

Item                                        Qty                                                                 Total
Kato N 20863-1 Switching Siding Track Set Variation 4                           2     $147.98
Kato N 20866-1 Unitrack Double Crossover Track Set Variation 7          1     $59.99
Kato N 20000 9-3/4" Straight Unitrack (4)                                               3     $20.97
Kato N 20010 7-5/16" Straight Unitrack (4)                                             1     $6.29
Kato N 20020 4-7/8" Straight Unitrack (4)                                               1     $5.59
Kato N 20030 Unitrack 2-1/2" Straight (2)                                               2     $5.38
Kato N 20040 2-7/16" Straight Unitrack (4)                                             1     $4.89
Kato N 20041 2-7/16" Straight Feeder Unitrack                                      4     $13.96
Kato N 20100 Unitrack 9-3/4" Radius Curve 45 Degree (4)                    1     $6.29
Kato N 20110 Unitrack 11"-45-Degree Radius Curved Track (4)             1     $6.99
Kato N 20120 12-3/8" Radius Curve 45 Degree Unitrack (4)                   2     $13.98
Kato N 20130 13-3/4" Radius Curve 30 Degree Unitrack (4)                   1     $6.29
Kato N 20091 Straight Track Assortment Unitrack (10)                            1     $10.99
Kato N 20400 Unitrack 9-3/4" Straight Viaduct (2)                                   1     $7.69
Kato N 20420 Unitrack 4-7/8" Straight Viaduct (2)                                   1     $6.19
Kato N 20510 Unitrack 45 Degree 11" Radius Viaduct                             3     $23.07
Kato N 20530 Unitrack 45 Degree 13-3/4" Radius Viaduct(2)                  1     $8.09
Kato N 20531 Unitrack 30 Degree 13-3/4" Radius Viaduct (2)                 1     $6.99

Kato N 20046 2-7/16" Straight Bumper A Unitrack (2)                             1     $5.59
Kato N 20047 2-7/16" Straight Bumper B Unitrack (2)                             1     $5.59
Kato N 20048 Unitrack 2" Straight Bumper C (2)                                     3     $17.37

 

track total........................................................................................................ $ 362.91

 

TRACK ELECTRICAL

 

Kato N 20203 #6 Right Electric Turnout Unitrack                                      2     $37.98
Kato N 20220 #4 Left Electric Turnout Unitrack                                        2     $51.98
Kato N 20221 #4 Right Electric Turnout Unitrack                                     3     $77.97

Kato HO/N 24840 Unitrack Turnout Control Switch                                  7     $48.93

......................................................................................................................$216.86

 

 

TRACK MISC

 

Kato N 23015 Unitrack 1/2" to 2" Incline Pier Set                                      1     $9.19
Kato N 23017 Unitrack 2" Single Track Pier,  Concrete Column (5)          2     $11.18
Kato N 20432 Unitrack 9-3/4" Truss Bridge, Gray                                    1     $9.79
..................................................................................................................................$30.16
 

MISC

 

Kato HO/N 24815 Unitrack Unijoiners (20)                                               1     $4.89

........................................................................................................................................$4.89

 

RAIL STRUCTURES
Kato N 23-100 Island Platform A                                                             2    $15.98

Kato N 23105 Island Platform End No 4                                                  1     $8.59

Kato N 23-130 N Scale - RURAL STATION PLATFORM KIT                   1     $72.59
Kato N 23-200 Overhead Station Set (Some Assembly Required)         1     $14.39

Kato N 23210 Station Entrance                                                              1     $6.69

Kato N 23-220 Rural Station Set (Ideal addition to 23-130)                    1     $62.95
Kato N 23-234 N Scale Rural Overhead Walkway Kit                              1     $25.99
Kato N 23-300 Long Engine House Kit                                                    1     $15.99

Kato 23-226     Yard Buildings Kit - Requires assembly                           1    $30.00
Kato 23-226     Yard Buildings Kit - Requires assembly                           1    $30.00

Kato 23-315     Station & Signal Tower set - Requires assembly              1  $14.50
..........................................................................................................................................$296.67

 

URBAN STRUCTURES

23-233     Wood Station Buildings Set  8 assorted wooden Japanese style     $58.50
23-310     Industrial Building                                                                             $34.00

23-406     Mama's Seafood Restaurant                                                            $33.75
23-457     Express Company                                                                            $40.00
23-405A   7410 N. Claremont                                                                          $30.00
23-433B   Metro 6 Floor Department Store,                                                    $35.00
23-438B  Boutique and Office Building                                                            $60.50

..............................................................................................................................................$291.75

 

                                                      total                                                                                $1196.24
 

The centenary are not listed.

 

Inobu

 

Notes:

 

Structure 23-224 is an Older wooden walkway. The modern version is 23-234

Edited by inobu
  • Like 2
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A while back I actually thought of doing that layout.  The bottom lower section would be urban/cityscape, and the upper section (made a little larger) would be rural/onsen town area.

 

Sounds good - was there a reason why you didn't go ahead? I'd be interested to know what you finally settled on

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